NAIPR Message

ARIN History

On Thursday, July 17, 1997 10:16 PM, Eric Weisberg[SMTP:editor at txlaw.com] wrote:
<snip>
@ 
@ You may have discussed ARIN's structure to death before I came along and
@ decided that a self-appointing board is what you want.  Maybe there was
@ a public vote to do it this way.  If so, I owe and give a lot of people
@ an appology and will understand their reluctance to accept it.  If such
@ a process has not occurred, I suggest that it should. I ask you to
@ respond to this suggestion rather than attacking my motives or
@ integrity.
@ 

Eric,

The following[1] from January 4, 1997 may help you
fill in some of the blanks. Note, ARIN was a "done deal"
when it was disclosed in January. Note, the meeting
references below with APNIC and RIPE and Jon Postel.

Also note that many of the questions still have not
been answered.....since January....NSI has obviously
been working on their IPO and moving people in buildings
to make the "done deal" reality. There is very little feedback
to the "Internet community" on what is really going on.
About all the NSF does is send out letters and issue press
releases stating that all of these decisions are based on
"consensus" from the Internet community. It is my impression
that the NSF only listens to 6 or 8 people or companies, if that.

Now the FTC and the DOJ are involved in these matters.
People want to quickly separate the domain name debates
and the IP address debates to confuse the federal investigators.
Internet resources are Internet resources and no one is fooling
anyone, they are all controlled by one person. For some reason
the Internet community does not want to admit this fact.

In my opinion, it would be better to admit it and move on. The NSF
dances around the issue, the FNC dances around the issue and
the FNCAC dances around the issue. Nobody wants to focus
on the problem, instead people are given a big run around, especially
when they are new, so that they can not easily see the problem.

This is certainly not going to change unless people like Clinton
and Gore wake up and say, "enough is enough...people have wasted
enough valuable time and energy". Unfortunately, the Internet Community
has not alternative form of governance and the existing federal
and state governances in various countries have not yet mapped
the Internet to their existing structures. Fortunately, lawyers
and politicians are beginning to see that there are many parallels.
They have been dealing with the allocation of scarce resources
for years. The issues are exactly the same, the "haves" and the
"have nots".

I do not think I need to tell you which you are...

Jim Fleming


[1] @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

----------
From: 	Jim Fleming[SMTP:JimFleming at UNETY.NET]
Sent: 	Saturday, January 04, 1997 11:36 PM
To: 	Multiple recipients of list NAIPR
Subject: 	Re: ARIN Questions (reposted)

On Saturday, January 04, 1997 5:01 PM, Kim Hubbard[SMTP:kimh at internic.net] wrote:
@ >
@ No, I didn't miss it.  I've been busy - ordering up new space from
@ the IP factory :-)  Seriously, I'll try to answer the questions
@ I can.
@

You may want to get incorporated before you place the
order...it makes the book keeping easier...;-)

Also, there are some very tricky IRS tax laws on how
to account for inventory, so you may want to make sure
your accountants set that up properly.

As an aside, I assume you mean IPv4 when you say IP.
IPv8 addresses are 43 bits long (32+8+3) and do not
come from the same factory as IPv4 addresses.

One of the nice things is that IPv4 addresses can be
"souped up" to IPv8 addresses with a simple "kit"
that gets bolted on....:-)

@
@ > Kim,
@ >
@ > I think something may have happened to the new ARIN
@ > mailing list and you may have missed these...here they
@ > are again...with a few more...
@ >
@ > Congratulations on the ARIN news...here are some questions...
@ >
@ >     1. What "factory" will be manufacturing your IPv4 addresses ?
@
@ None.
@

Hmmm...I thought they were manufactered out in "tinsel town"...

@
@ >     2. What inventory of addresses do you have ?
@
@ Do you mean unassigned addresses?  If so, we are currently allocating
@ from 208/8 and 209/8.  All other unassigned address space is managed
@ by the IANA.
@

Ahhh...so the IANA IPv4 plant has allowed you to operate your
own franchised factories for 208 and 209.

How much did you have to pay for those manufacturing rights ?

Is the IANA selling any other /24 franchises ?

@ >
@ >     3. How did you obtain that inventory ?
@ >             What did it cost ?
@
@ >From the IANA in conjunction with the cooperative agreement between
@ NSF and NSI.  ARIN will continue to receive it from the IANA.

Let me get this straight.
        You are starting a NEW, independent non-profit 501(c) company.
        That's cool, many people start companies at the beginning of the year.
Now...
        You are obtaining the inventory to start your company via the U.S. Government ?
        Is this government surplus ?
        Has the NSF approved this ?
        Did the U.S. Government advertise this or post any notices regarding this ?


@ >
@ >     4. Will you also be paying people to "recycle" unused addresses ?
@ >             If so, how much ?
@
@ No.

So, what happens when you run out of inventory...?

@ >
@ >     5. Has the IRS made any rulings on the market value of
@ >             IP addresses ?
@
@ Not to my knowledge.

That should be easy now that fees appear to be established.

By the way, are those fees matched to the APNIC or is that a coincidence ?

@ >
@ >     6. Have you considered running ARIN as a "for profit" company ?
@
@  o.

I assume that is a No...

@ >
@ >     7. Have you considered developing distribution "channels" ?
@ >             (i.e. are there key ISPs who will be distributors?)
@
@ ISPs are already "distributors" in a sense.

Yes, and what a loyal group. They do all the work and never ask for
commissions. Not a bad deal.

@ >
@ >
@       8. How will ARIN impact the current "grey market" for CIDR blocks ?
@
@ Grey market???

Trading behind the scenes...some people claim they now pay
a $50,000 one time fee for a /16...

@
@ >     9. As other companies (for profit or non-profit) launch similar
@ >             ventures such as ARIN, will Network Solutions, Inc.
@ >             be providing the financial backing ? Is that money coming
@ >             from the 30% NSF domain trust fund ?
@
@ You'll have to ask NSI.  The 30% fund is not being used for ARIN.

Actually, the NSF is the agency to ask...that is in progress...;-)

@ >
@ >     10. I noticed that the IANA has already announced ARIN. Has ARIN
@ >             already been incorporated and been approved as a 501(c) ?
@ >                     <http://www.isi.edu/div7/iana/announce.html>
@ >
@ No.

Hmmm...I am not sure how you can have inventory and contractural
agreements and all that sort of thing before you are a real company.
Must be a new way to handle a 501(c).

By the way, have you ever run a 501(c) ?
Not to discourage you, but they can be very tricky.
It is much easier to run a "for-profit" company.
Again, check with your lawyers and accountants, your mileage may vary...

@
@ >     11. Do you have the meeting notes on-line from the meetings and
@ >             plans noted below [1] [2] ?
@
@ No.

Will they be...?

@ >
@ >     12. Will ARIN be paying the NEW Root Name Server owner/operators
@ >             to maintain delegations for the IN-ADDR.ARPA pseudo TLD ?
@
@ No.

Hmmm...how can you then guarantee that your allocations are useful ?

Keep in mind that based on what has been proposed to date, ARIN will
not be a long arm of the U.S. Government. You now enter the world where
ARIN will be an equal among many non-profit and for-profit companies.
There can be no special U.S. Government privileges if other companies
are not given the same.

You might want to investigate ALL of the ins and outs of the registry
industry that goes far beyond the protected walls of the InterNIC.

@
@ >
@ >     13. Does ARIN plan to deploy any Root Name Servers or other network
@ >             infrastructure ?
@
@ Not sure yet.

Keep us posted. Without TRUE Root Name Servers, companies in the
registry business will have a difficult time being a "player". That is sort
of like an ISP without routers or modems...

@ >
@ >     14. What relationship does ARIN have with other non-profit organizations
@ >             such as the Internet Society, CIX, ISP/C, the Sierra Club, etc. ?
@
@ Same as with everyone else - if they need IP address space they are
@ welcome to apply.
@

Sounds good..."the same as everyone else"...that has a nice ring to it...

@ >     15. How does ARIN intend to "compete" with for-profit companies
@ >             operating in the same arena ? Has the IRS ruled on this ?
@
@ I don't know of any for-profit IP registries.
@

Again, I suggest that you study the entire registry industry.
Also, you might want to look beyond IPv4. I started "selling"
unique 32 bit identifiers back in 1982. If you like, you can check
the ads in Dr. Dobb's Journal, one of the popular computer hobby
magazines.

IPv8 addresses will of course be handled completely differently
from IPv4 addresses. High performance addresses like that
need special handling...;-)

@ -Kim
@
@
@ >
@ >  [1]  @@@@  ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/imr/imr9610.txt
@ >
@ > "IP Support
@ >
@ >      Kim Hubbard met with Jon Postel (IANA), David Conrad (APNIC) and
@ >      Daniel Karrenberg (RIPE) in California to discuss IP issues."
@ >
@ >
@ >  [2]  @@@@  ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/imr/imr9611.txt
@ >
@ > "IP Support
@ >
@ >      * Staffing plans and a preliminary budget were completed with
@ >      regard to separating the IP Section from InterNIC Registration
@ >      Services."
@ >
@ > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@ >
@

I appreciate your response. I am not sure if others
have asked, but will you remain as an employee of
Network Solutions, Inc. once ARIN is "launched" ?

==============================================

--
Jim Fleming
Unir Corporation