[ppml] IPv6 getting real: was Policy Proposal: IPv4 TransferPolicy Proposal

[k claffy]

On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 04:26:32PM -0800, Michael Sinatra wrote:
  k claffy wrote:
  
  >  After all, it's in the core. You would think college students
  >  would be trading MP3s or movies or something. (I've heard many rumors
  >  that they have been known to do so over IPv4.)
  >
  >you lost me there. if they're trading music and movies
  >over ipv4, why should they use ipv6?  
  
  They will only start using IPv6 when they realize that the DMCA 
  'enforcers' out there have no visibility in IPv6 and that they can share 
  stuff with impunity.  (This may already be happening in tunnels.)

i'm not sure which implication of this prediction worries me most:

- the idea that file sharers who do not want to be detected 
should use a protocol that noone else is using
- the assumption that hollywood doesn't have the political capital
to 'detect unlawful use of ipv6' using our tax dollars 
- the suggestion that the 'killer app' (sic!) for ipv6 is illegal activity.

  But that brings us back to the point.  Many EDUs who have v6 in their 
  core, and even in administrative and research nets, have not enabled it 
  on their resnets, mainly because there is so much management glue that 
  allows for bandwidth management, auditing (so the resnet admins know who 
  to contact if/when those DMCA notices come in), making sure only 
  authorized users are using the resnet, etc.  That management glue 
  currently only understands IPv4.  The fear is that if an EDU enables 
  IPv6 on a reshall network, it will be the wild, wild west all over again.

except without the romantic idealism that we were changing the
world (incentive), the relatively immediate feedback that we
/were/ changing the world ("mom has email!"), the peace-of-mind
that comes with having no installed base to irritiate (much
less a paying installed base), and the massive government
investment that made all the R&E network design, architecture,
construction, operation, and upgrades possible (capital).

instead of all those advantages, we have at least a dozen 
persistent problems with the current Internet that IPv6 will 
do nothing to solve and in some cases will exacerbate. 

besides that i guess i can see the similarity to the wild west,
in terms of horse-drawn carriages kicking up dust and stuff.

  It's interesting to note that since EDUs *are* ISPs with respect to 
  their resnets, I can certainly understand why commercial residential SPs 
  are not fully v6ified, and why we'll see v6 in the core first.

well, the difference between the edge and the core is going 
away with consolidation ("so we've got that going for us"),
but i missed the part where the core had incentive to throw
capital into a new network.  i thought they were still 
working on sustainable business models for the current one. 
but geoff has thoroughly covered this territory. 

k