[arin-ppml] Policy Proposal 2008-6

On Dec 31, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Kevin Kargel wrote:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at [mailto:arin-ppml- 
>> bounces at] On
>> Behalf Of Leo Bicknell
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:26 AM
>> To: arin-ppml at
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy Proposal 2008-6
>> In a message written on Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 09:38:56PM -0500, Brent
>> Sweeny wrote:
>>> the trick is not to wave our arms vainly against the wind,  
>>> insisting on
>> a
>>> view of the internet in our region that's just not realistic-- 
>>> either too
>>> wild-west *or* too regulated.  I *believe* that what Randy is  
>>> saying is
>> that
>>> there's already a flourishing black market and that it's likely  
>>> vain to
>> think
>>> we can stop it by fiat *or* by trying to jigger the financials--it's
>> assumed
>>> to be too well-entrenched and too adaptable.  How large that  
>>> market is
>> may be
>>> both crucial and impossible to know, but it's foolish to pretend it
>> isn't
>>> there, or is insignificant enough that rules alone might make it go
>> away. And
>> Here's the problem I have had with that argument from the start,
>> it's not self-consistent.
>> The argument is that:
>>  1) The black market is large enough, and powerful enough that we  
>> can't
>>     control it in any meaningful way.
>>  2) The black market operates totally in the shadows, hidden from  
>> view,
>>     and can't be measured.
>> It just doesn't make sense.  If 50% of the IP space out there was
>> traded by the black market we'd have people coming out of the
>> woodwork talking about the deals they made.  Even if all of these
>> people managed to keep silent, we could measure by subtraction,
>> half the space ISP's were asked to route would look "fishy" with
>> wrong names, addresses, etc in whois.
> I have often wondered about this "black market" myself..  everyone  
> talks
> about it, but in 15+ years of working in Internet I have never been
> approached and offered IP addresses for sale.  I have never seen  
> anyone
> offer them, and searching even on newsgroups and other forums I have  
> not
> seen offers of network for money.  I have seen netblocks hijacked,  
> but not
> illicitly sold.  I believe it has happened, but I do not think the  
> frequency
> of it happening is quite the problem it is touted to be.

Most black markets tend to be small and marginal as long as the item  
in question is widely
available at a reasonable price, and grow rapidly once that is no  
longer true.


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