[ppml] Buying time...

Wed Apr 25 09:19:39 EDT 2007

The good news about having an email address that is twice as long is that
it increases traffic on the Internet.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:

> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:46:10 -0400
> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> To: ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [ppml] Buying time...
> 
> Agree, but the current estimations for the "exhaustion" seems to still make
> if possible if anyone of those big carriers has not started yet, I believe.
> 
> Also, I guess your figures are the worst case and if your existing hardware
> don't have that support already.
> 
> I still believe that most of the time you're upgrading your network for
> other reasons, not necessarily because IPv6, and IPv6 hardware is coming as
> a value added choice. Of course, there are cases and cases ...

Yes I am in the process of upgrading the network for other efforts and
other projects, but it is unlikely that these other efforts will result in
a replacement of all assets that are not IPv6 capable by 2012.

Whatever remains non-IPv6 capable will have to be upgraded, and as IPv6
generates no new revune there is not much of a return on investment.

__Jason

> 
> Regards,
> Jordi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > De: Jason Schiller <schiller at uu.net>
> > Responder a: <schiller at uu.net>
> > Fecha: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:30:22 -0400 (EDT)
> > Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> > CC: <ppml at arin.net>
> > Asunto: Re: [ppml] Buying time...
> > 
> > Jordi,
> > 
> > Many IPS have a normal 5 year refresh cycle.  Depending on where they are
> > in the process, starting an upgrade now may short cut the refresh cycle
> > and require an investment in hardware upgrades (ISPs require packet
> > forwarding in hardware, and not all hardware that forward IPv4 traffic in
> > hardware can also forward IPv6 in hardware).  These investments would be
> > in IPv6 which generate no new revune.
> > 
> > Large networks can take a long time to upgrade if a fork-lift upgrade is
> > required (think 2-3 years).
> > 
> > __Jason
> > ==========================================================================
> > Jason Schiller                                               (703)886.6648
> > Senior Internet Network Engineer                         fax:(703)886.0512
> > Public IP Global Network Engineering                       schiller at uu.net
> > UUNET / Verizon                         jason.schiller at verizonbusiness.com
> > 
> > The good news about having an email address that is twice as long is that
> > it increases traffic on the Internet.
> > 
> > On Tue, 24 Apr 2007, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> > 
> >> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:41:27 -0400
> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> >> To: ppml at arin.net
> >> Subject: Re: [ppml] Buying time...
> >> 
> >> I don't really agree with the need for "buying" more time for deploying
> >> IPv6. It will take 1, 2 or 3 years more, but there will be no new products
> >> in the market in 1-2 years that don't support IPv6.
> >> 
> >> Market will not accept it, and manufacturers will have no interest on doing
> >> so, just a matter of competition.
> >> 
> >> Now, even if (some) ISPs decide not to deploy IPv6, neither transition tools
> >> in their networks, the addresses needed for running IPv4-only devices
> >> (considering the increase in the use of NAT if required), are already there.
> >> We don't need many more IPv4 addresses for keeping the network that we have
> >> today and the grown in the next couple of years.
> >> 
> >> If we ever do anything, it will be just an artificial measure, never a
> >> perfectly fair solution. There is no way we can decide that we need to
> >> reserve some of the /8s for this or that region. Based on what ? And what if
> >> the development progress on this or that region is different after two years
> >> ? It may be a fair distribution now, but it can be radically different in 2
> >> years.
> >> 
> >> I also believe, as indicated already today in the previous session, that as
> >> much as we progress with IPv6 deployment and more traffic is dominant versus
> >> IPv4 one, there will be more and more core/distribution/access networks that
> >> will turn to be only-IPv6 instead of dual stack (always keeping the LANs
> >> with dual stack, even with private IPv4 and NAT), using mechanisms such as
> >> softwires to automatically setup IPv4-in-IPv6 tunnels for those
> >> applications/hosts that are not yet (or never will be) IPv6 ready. This will
> >> mean that some of the today used IPv4 addressing space may be returned, very
> >> slowly, and reused just in case new networks appear and they still decide to
> >> be dual stack for whatever reason (I tend to think that it will not make
> >> sense if IPv6 traffic is becoming dominant, but may be cases that I'm not
> >> thinking about).
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> Jordi
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> De: Raul Echeberria <raul at lacnic.net>
> >>> Responder a: <ppml-bounces at arin.net>
> >>> Fecha: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:02:54 -0300
> >>> Para: 'ARIN PPML' <ppml at arin.net>
> >>> Asunto: Re: [ppml] Buying time...
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Tony, Bill:
> >>> 
> >>> I think that the situation is a bit more
> >>> complicated that what I can understand from your comments.
> >>> I agree regarding IPv6 is the solution, but IPv6
> >>> will not be widely adopted only because we think that would be the solution.
> >>> So, we will have to deal with IPv4 still for some
> >>> more time. And we have to work in ensuring the
> >>> same possibilities of access to IPv4 resources to everybody around the
> >>> world.
> >>> IMHO we have to work in making IPv6 more feasible
> >>> bat also in paralel we have to work in optimizing
> >>> the usage of IPv4. It can be done in a "non very
> >>> painful" way. I guess that nobody can obstract
> >>> Intenet development. Concluding, "buying time"
> >>> could be benefitial for the community, and it is enough for me.
> >>> 
> >>> Raúl
> >>> 
> >>> At 03:45 p.m. 24/04/2007, Bill Woodcock wrote:
> >>>>> The discussion about 'buying time' to prepare for IPv6 is just
> >>>>> a stalling tactic that will only make the
> >>>> eventual effort that much more
> >>>>> painful. It is absolutely understandable
> >>>> that people want to have more time
> >>>>> to prepare, but to do that they should have started earlier. Making the
> >>>>> current processes more painful for new
> >>>> comers just so the lethargic can feel
> >>>>> better is not 'stewardship'.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Agreed.  ARIN just isn't in a position to save people from themselves.
> >>>> We're running out of v4.  The solution to that is v6.  If people want to
> >>>> avail themselves of the solution, it's there.  We can't force them, and
> >>>> it's twenty years too late to come up with a different solution.
> >>>> 
> >>>>                                 -Bill
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> 
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> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> **********************************************
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> >> 
> >> Bye 6Bone. Hi, IPv6 !
> >> http://www.ipv6day.org
> >> 
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> >> 
> >> 
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> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **********************************************
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> 
> Bye 6Bone. Hi, IPv6 !
> http://www.ipv6day.org
> 
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
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