[ppml] A proposal to modify proposal 2003-9 (WHOIS and INADDR access)

[John M. Brown]

Ummm,  SMP multi-threaded is such a wonderful thing.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ppml at arin.net [mailto:owner-ppml at arin.net] On 
> Behalf Of McBurnett, Jim
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:25 AM
> To: Owen DeLong; ppml at arin.net
> Subject: RE: [ppml] A proposal to modify proposal 2003-9 
> (WHOIS and INADDR access)
> 
> 
> Owen,
> I agree with the availability..
> And to take that one step farther.
> Should ARIN decide not to make it available, I foresee what 
> you have said: Repetive DNS server hits. HMM.. I see a script 
> in the works... 
> I imagine a script could pull down the entire database in a 
> week.. And not load the server too much.....
> 
> And finally, Policies? if ARIN needs a Policy for everything, 
> then how will they every get anything done...
> But honestly, I think this whole topic is about justifing 
> workload or preventing workload. let's get the label right.....
> 
> J
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 12:09 PM
> To: ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [ppml] A proposal to modify proposal 2003-9 
> (WHOIS and INADDR access)
> 
> 
> OK... I guess I'll throw my hat in the ring here...
> 
> I think that the IN-ADDR data should be provided.  If ARIN 
> staff feels a policy is needed, then I think two things have 
> happened...
> 
> 	1.	ARIN staff has become too policy focused.  IN-ADDR can
> 		be easily mapped by repeatedly hitting the DNS servers
> 		and there are no privacy issues with it.  The 
> data should
> 		simply be made available.  As such, I hope this 
> will provide
> 		the impetus for RichardJ to get whatever approvals are
> 		necessary from ARIN Management/BOD to make this 
> happen without
> 		policy.
> 
> 	2.	We have discovered the need for additional 
> clarification to
> 		the ARIN staff of what should and should not require
> 		formal public policies to accomplish.
> 
> Personally, I think that the ARIN IN-ADDR zone file(s) should be made 
> available
> via FTP and/or HTTP and that should be the end of it.
> 
> However, I am not diametrically opposed to applying the same 
> AUP to WHOIS
> and IN-ADDR.  I think it is policy overkill, but, it's 
> certainly better than not having the IN-ADDR information 
> available at all.
> 
> Owen
> 
> 
> --On Tuesday, June 10, 2003 4:39 AM -0600 John Brown 
> <john at chagres.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:44:26AM -0700, william at elan.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Fine, lets get ARIN to listen and provide the data for all 
> other /8 
> >> blocks!
> >
> > I think that is an over statment, and certainly not something
> I'm asking
> > for. ARIN was clearly specifide and not the other RIR's.  For
> them they
> > each have their proper venue, and its not here.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Still the question is do we need a policy for this? If we do
> should it
> >> actually require authentication similar to bulk whois to get
> the data or
> >> is current system of getting it by ftp enough?
> >
> > Based on email from ARIN staff last fall, they used to
> provide the data
> > upon request, but started refusing the data until there was a
> policy in
> > place.
> >
> > The ARIN AC (post my resignation) did not feel it was
> something in their
> > scope as defined by the board.  THe board has said that the AC is to
> > deal with clear and crisp IP allocation policies only.   I 
> think even
> > the whois is not within their view based on the direction
> from the board.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> In my opinion adding in-addr to bulk-whois proposal is both not 
> >> approriate as whois data is a lot more complex and has
> rather specific
> >> privacy issues, its unnecessory and it sounds bad as far as
> you wrote it
> >> (i.e. what you  proposed - "arin whois inaddr aup").
> >
> > I agree, WHOIS is more complex and has privacy issues.  Hence
> the IN-ADDR
> > should be an easy issue to deal with.
> >
> > I don't believe I used those words you are attributing to 
> me.  Please 
> > correct or quote correctly....
> >
> > What I stated is that access to the whois  OR  inaddr carried
> with it the
> > same level of restrictions and conditions.  This would be
> more protection
> > for the IN-ADDR and continue to protect the whois data.
> >
> >
> >
> >> First I think we need to ask ARIN if they are willing to 
> get all the 
> >> inaddr data out on their ftp site on their own based on
> current polices
> >> and procedures (they do after all provide entire ASN list
> including all
> >> those ASNs they inherited from Internic, so why is it so
> different for
> >> inaddr?). If they do not want to do it, then propose a 
> simple policy: 
> >> "ARIN will provide public access to complete INADDR data 
> for all ip 
> >> blocks in its database for public download by ftp"
> >
> > Well todate ARIN has refused to provide IN-ADDR lacking a
> policy.  I can
> > dig up the email from ARIN staff issued last fall, if needed.
> >
> > Agreed they have the ASN data, the IN-ADDR seems easy as well
> since they
> > have to gen the zone for their NS set anyway.
> >
> > Personally I believe that ARIN should have an AUP for this data.
> >
> > John Brown
> >
> >>
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: owner-ppml at arin.net [mailto:owner-ppml at arin.net] 
> On Behalf 
> >> > > Of william at elan.net
> >> > > Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 11:44 PM
> >> > > To: John M. Brown
> >> > > Cc: ppml at arin.net
> >> > > Subject: Re: [ppml] A proposal to modify proposal 
> 2003-9 (WHOIS 
> >> > > and INADDR access)
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Why do you need policy for providing in-addr data as bulk? I 
> >> > > think ARIN already provides this all publicly as it, see
> >> > > ftp://ftp.arin.net/pub/zones
> >> > >
> >> > > Do you need something more then
> >> > > that?
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, John M. Brown wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > 3. A policy for bulk WHOIS and or ARIN INADDR access will
> >> > > be published
> >> > > > on
> >> > > >    ARIN website as follows:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "Access to the entire WHOIS or ARIN INADDR database or
> >> > > large portion
> >> > > > of
> >> > > > it may be obtained by any organization or individual
> >> > > provided that this
> >> > > > organization or individual agrees in writing to ARIN
> WHOIS/INADDR
> >> > > > Acceptable
> >> > > > Use Policy. WHOIS or ARIN INADDR data provided under bulk
> >> > > WHOIS access
> >> > > > will not include any information that is marked as private.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Access to WHOIS/INADDR data may be by way of:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Individual WHOIS/DNS queries
> >> > > >
> >> > > > FTP or other type of download
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hard media distribution (such as CDROM)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -----
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Given that ARIN now has policy  2002-1 Lame In-addr,
> >> > > providing access
> >> > > > to the in-addr view that ARIN has would be useful for
> the internet
> >> > > > operational and research community, and help reduce lame
> >> > > issues.  This
> >> > > > access would allow service providers access to the 
> IN-ADDR tree 
> >> > > > and  allow them to self verify what deligations they
> are listed as
> >> > > > authoritative for.  It would allow the research
> community a better
> >> > > > source of data for research and other activities.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > respectfully,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > john brown
> >> > >
> >>
> 
>