[arin-discuss] Suggestion 2010.1 -- Initial Fee Waiver forIPv6assignments to LRSA signatories

Tue Mar 2 12:43:05 EST 2010

And on the subject of wording, the fee waiver wording is very vague.  It says “organization”.  Not ISP, End user or anything else.  It could be argued that if you’re a legacy holder, you are an organization paying a yearly registration fee to ARIN and would qualify under #1 of the criteria:

Initial Allocation Registration Fee Waiver Eligibility 

1.	Organizations that pay fees for a direct allocation of IPv4 address space have no fees associated with their initial IPv6 allocation.
2.	Organizations associated with other types of resources (IPv4 or IPv6 assignments, ASNs) or who do not hold resources are subject to the Declining Fee Waiver Schedule for IPv6 Allocations.

From: Nathaniel B. Lyon [mailto:nate.lyon at nfldwifi.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:33 AM
To: Brian Johnson; Aaron Wendel; Owen DeLong
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] Suggestion 2010.1 -- Initial Fee Waiver forIPv6assignments to LRSA signatories

Tomato, tomato.  Sorry I used the wrong terminology.  

From: Brian Johnson [mailto:bjohnson at drtel.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:31 AM
To: Nathaniel B. Lyon; Aaron Wendel; Owen DeLong
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] Suggestion 2010.1 -- Initial Fee Waiver forIPv6assignments to LRSA signatories

I don’t know how many times this has been said, but I am getting concerned about the concept of “ownership” relative to address space. YOU DO NOT PURCHASE SPACE. The fees paid are to pay for the maintenance of the space you are being allocated for use.

For details on fees, please read the fee schedule (https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html) at the ARIN website. 

- Brian

From: Nathaniel B. Lyon [mailto:nate.lyon at nfldwifi.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:19 AM
To: Brian Johnson; Aaron Wendel; Owen DeLong
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] Suggestion 2010.1 -- Initial Fee Waiver forIPv6assignments to LRSA signatories

I am chiming in very late, so maybe this has already been addressed.  So what are the plans for  the guys who have already purchased IPv6 assignments from ARIN?  I guess what are going to be getting out of this asides from a possibly quicker IPv6 roll-out across the board?

My apologies, I have not been following this string as close as I should be.

From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Brian Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:15 AM
To: Aaron Wendel; Owen DeLong
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Suggestion 2010.1 -- Initial Fee Waiver for IPv6assignments to LRSA signatories

Exactly! Everyone should be treated the same relative to IPv6 requests.

- Brian

From: Aaron Wendel [mailto:aaron at wholesaleinternet.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:12 AM
To: Brian Johnson; 'Owen DeLong'
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] Suggestion 2010.1 -- Initial Fee Waiver for IPv6assignments to LRSA signatories

I would be all for ARIN extending the current fee waivers to encompass both legacy space holders who sign an LRSA for their old space and an RSA for the new space as well as end users.  I just put in for some critical infrastructure v6 space and was a little surprised when I got hit for full freight as an end user.  It’s a non starter for v6 on my little, local, free exchange as I assume it would be for many others.  Just level the playing field so everyone pays on the same scale.  That would be a start. J

Aaron

From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Brian Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:27 AM
To: Owen DeLong
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Suggestion 2010.1 -- Initial Fee Waiver for IPv6assignments to LRSA signatories

Here’s how I think it should go. If I’m an LRSA holder and want IPv6 space, I would have to sign a normal RSA for the IPv6 space and pay the fees as a regular space holder, just like any other RSA holder. I am willing to encourage IPv6 as long as we don’t get into a battle between legacy and non legacy holders over fees. Neither should be getting a “better deal” than the other.

I hope this makes my position clear.

- Brian

From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com] 
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 9:26 PM
To: Brian Johnson
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Suggestion 2010.1 -- Initial Fee Waiver for IPv6assignments to LRSA signatories

Not really... They get a special rate on the initial IPv6 assignment, but, after that, they're paying the same $100/year

that every other end-user is paying.

The intent here is to induce them to both embrace IPv6 _AND_ start paying for their IPv4 under end-user terms

rather than keep their legacy status and exclusion from the ARIN community and policies altogether so long

as they can avoid dealing with IPv6.

As I see it, the alternative is that we have yet another group of users with an additional incentive to push back

against IPv6 which I regard as harmful to the internet in general.

Owen

On Feb 27, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Brian Johnson wrote:

Owen,

I would still be opposed under the idea that they would deserve special rates. This would perpetuate the idea of multiple classes of members / space holders that I would like to see diminished if not eliminated.

- Brian

From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com] 
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:16 AM
To: Brian Johnson
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Suggestion 2010.1 -- Initial Fee Waiver for IPv6assignments to LRSA signatories

Brian,

          The IPv6 space under this suggestion would be subject to regular RSA, not LRSA.

Only the legacy space would be covered by the LRSA.  With that clarification, do you

still oppose the suggestion? (I'll note that the suggestion relates to reducing fees, ARIN

policy already provides for them to get the space on these terms).

Owen

On Feb 25, 2010, at 6:27 AM, Brian Johnson wrote:

I oppose this proposal as it maintains the current divide between legacy space and “regular” space. If a legacy holder wants IPv6 space, they would need to sign a regular RSA and join the rest of us.

- Brian

From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:39 PM
To: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: [arin-discuss] Suggestion 2010.1 -- Initial Fee Waiver for IPv6assignments to LRSA signatories

I have submitted a formal suggestion to the ACSP recommending that the BoT waive initial

assignment fees for IPv6 when the applicant is a legacy resource holder that has signed

the LRSA.

I believe this helps remove most of the barriers to entry for legacy IPv4 holders to migrate

to IPv6 and is in the best interests of the community.

ARIN has informed me that the matter will be placed on the Board's finance committee

agenda.  As such, I would like to encourage members here who have an opinion on the

matter to let the board know what you think, ideally by posting a message to this list.

Owen

Below is the message I received from ARIN and the original suggestion I submitted:

Owen,

This is in response to your suggestion noted below and assigned number 2010.1.

Thank you for your suggestion relating to charging no initial fee related to request for an initial IPv6 allocation and/or assignments for Legacy Holders that have signed the ARIN Legacy Registration Service Agreement.  As this relates to fees, this will be added to the ARIN Board's Finance Committee agenda for 2010.

Some other information related to this suggestion is that the current IPv6 waiver for allocations for initial requests and renewals in 2010 is a 50% fee waiver. For requests in 2011, the allocation fees will be 25% waived. 
In terms of assignments, the initial fee is not waived.  Clients requesting assignment resources pay an initial fee per request of address space and thereafter pay annual allocation or maintenance fees related to the Organizational ID as a whole. Initial fees are to cover the effort related to reviewing and analyzing the request, whereas maintenance fees are designed to cover the overhead of maintaining objects in the database.

Recent changes were implemented in mid 2009 for organizations with both ARIN-issued and Legacy Resources. They are assessed an Annual Fee based on the ARIN-issued resources and not charged the Legacy resource maintenance fee.

ARIN is reliant on its active membership to help it better serve the community and we want to commend you for your continuing activism and service.

Regards,

Member Services
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)

*********************************************

2010.1
01-18-2010 16:58:30

ARIN should offer legacy holders that sign the LRSA the opportunity to receive an appropriate IPv6 allocation or assignment for no initial fee. The applicable standard renewal fees would apply thereafter.

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