From mike at mathbox.com  Fri Oct  2 01:13:37 2009
From: mike at mathbox.com (Michael Thomas)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 01:13:37 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Missing IP Range in WhoIs
Message-ID: <200910020114750.SM00652@mikesplace>

On checking a spam source IP address for ownership, I discovered that the
ARIN Whois database has no records for 68.234.16.0 - 68.234.31.255, but
traceroutes to 68.234.16.11 and 68.234.31.11 lead back to verizon-gni.net.

Michael Thomas
Mathbox
978-687-3300
Toll Free: 1-877-MATHBOX (1-877-628-4269)



From morrowc.lists at gmail.com  Fri Oct  2 01:21:42 2009
From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 01:21:42 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Missing IP Range in WhoIs
In-Reply-To: <200910020114750.SM00652@mikesplace>
References: <200910020114750.SM00652@mikesplace>
Message-ID: <75cb24520910012221j7152ac42he87eb0d225550fe0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Michael Thomas <mike at mathbox.com> wrote:
> On checking a spam source IP address for ownership, I discovered that the
> ARIN Whois database has no records for 68.234.16.0 - 68.234.31.255, but
> traceroutes to 68.234.16.11 and 68.234.31.11 lead back to verizon-gni.net.

really? I see it traceroute to mzima/colo-jax.. and routeviews shows
origin AS40430:

show ip bgp 68.234.16.1
BGP routing table entry for 68.234.16.0/20
Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
 Not advertised to any peer
 11537 25973 40430
   198.108.93.41 from 198.108.63.41 (198.108.63.41)
     Origin IGP, metric 905, localpref 110, valid, internal, best
     Community: 237:1 237:1300 237:11537 11537:25200
     Extended Community: RT:11537:1
     Last update: Wed Sep 23 14:08:53 2009

note mzima has some whacky routing loop going on there as well for
some of the  /20... (agreed that there are no ARIN records/whois for
this block, perhaps it got reclaimed?)

-chris

> Michael Thomas
> Mathbox
> 978-687-3300
> Toll Free: 1-877-MATHBOX (1-877-628-4269)
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>


From rpd at 123.net  Fri Oct  2 01:25:16 2009
From: rpd at 123.net (Ryan Duda)
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 01:25:16 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Missing IP Range in WhoIs
In-Reply-To: <200910020114750.SM00652@mikesplace>
References: <200910020114750.SM00652@mikesplace>
Message-ID: <4AC58EBC.20701@123.net>

http://thyme.apnic.net/rviews/data-add-IANA

-rpd

Michael Thomas wrote:
> On checking a spam source IP address for ownership, I discovered that the
> ARIN Whois database has no records for 68.234.16.0 - 68.234.31.255, but
> traceroutes to 68.234.16.11 and 68.234.31.11 lead back to verizon-gni.net.
> 
> Michael Thomas
> Mathbox
> 978-687-3300
> Toll Free: 1-877-MATHBOX (1-877-628-4269)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> 
> 


From owen at delong.com  Fri Oct  2 09:29:47 2009
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 06:29:47 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Missing IP Range in WhoIs
In-Reply-To: <200910020114750.SM00652@mikesplace>
References: <200910020114750.SM00652@mikesplace>
Message-ID: <BB93F274-6A3B-4A18-BFFA-997185646BDA@delong.com>

This looks like it might be a hijack block trying to masquerade as if  
it has something to
do with Verizon.

Owen

On Oct 1, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:

> On checking a spam source IP address for ownership, I discovered  
> that the
> ARIN Whois database has no records for 68.234.16.0 - 68.234.31.255,  
> but
> traceroutes to 68.234.16.11 and 68.234.31.11 lead back to verizon-gni.net 
> .
>
> Michael Thomas
> Mathbox
> 978-687-3300
> Toll Free: 1-877-MATHBOX (1-877-628-4269)
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.



From john at citylinkfiber.com  Sun Oct  4 22:45:10 2009
From: john at citylinkfiber.com (John Brown)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 20:45:10 -0600
Subject: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
Message-ID: <F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra>


I would also add that technology supplier isn't the only place that needs work.

Based on a brief survey of websites very few if any returned AAAA records for www.DOMAIN-NAME.com

www.cnn.com  
www.mit.edu 
www.harvard.edu
www.abc.com
www.microsoft.com
www.google.com
www.yahoo.com

the above did NOT return any IPv6 data.  Unless I'm doing something wrong with

dig www.DOMAIN-NAME.com aaaa

Since that did return IPv6 data when I did www.arin.net or www.icann.org  or www.isc.org

Got to have places for the eye-balls to goto, ergo content needs to be available via the protocol.
That will help drive the end-users, which will drive the service providers, the equipment providers, etc.

It is an eco-system issue we are dealing with.

Just my $0::2/128 worth.



-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net on behalf of Paul Vixie
Sent: Thu 9/24/2009 7:49 AM
To: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
 
> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:40:54 +0100
> From: <michael.dillon at bt.com>
> ...
> Maybe ARIN could organize an IPv6 awareness sprint, and provide a room
> full of phones, with coffee and snacks for the volunteers?

this could be done, and would be among other things a great experience of
shared pain, shared fun, and shared learning for all.  (and i can see a
way to extend it beyond that room on that day, using a ticket system after
we get back to our own offices.)  however, one part of the challenge seems
daunting:

> Any would-be heroes should sit down at the phone and start calling minor
> equipment vendors and software vendors to find out when they will support
> IPv6. Any bit of software used in network operational support or by home
> users needs to be IPv6 capable.

how should we build the target list, since many of our vendors are several
layers deep behind resellers, and since pounding on the resellers may be
like pushing on ropes?

overall i'm intrigued by this idea, it's a great use of ARIN's resources --
and i mean especially the talents and contacts of *all* of the people here,
not just ARIN staff/board/council.

paul vixie
chairman
ARIN BoT
_______________________________________________
ARIN-Discuss
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.



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From morrowc.lists at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 23:38:23 2009
From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 23:38:23 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
In-Reply-To: <F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra>
References: <F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra>
Message-ID: <75cb24520910042038p3f3ca59eu2e55522af0fbb344@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:45 PM, John Brown <john at citylinkfiber.com> wrote:
>
> I would also add that technology supplier isn't the only place that needs
> work.
>
> Based on a brief survey of websites very few if any returned AAAA records
> for www.DOMAIN-NAME.com
>
> www.cnn.com
> www.mit.edu
> www.harvard.edu
> www.abc.com
> www.microsoft.com
> www.google.com
> www.yahoo.com
>
> the above did NOT return any IPv6 data.? Unless I'm doing something wrong
> with

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;www.google.com.			IN	AAAA

;; ANSWER SECTION:
www.google.com.		433737	IN	CNAME	www.l.google.com.
www.l.google.com.	300	IN	AAAA	2001:4860:b002::68

Pehaps, like google's ipv6 tester program, the other folks on your
list above give different answers depending upon who asks?

I agree that having content available is key to some form of good
debugging and success for this endeavor, but... the above sites
bread/butter is made on the current internet protocol version being
quick/accurate/complete for their end users. Giving worse performance
on a 'new'  protocol isn't acceptable and AAAA will not appear
globally for them until ipv4 and ipv6 performance is equal for their
userbases.

-Chris


From spiffnolee at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  5 08:09:51 2009
From: spiffnolee at yahoo.com (Lee Howard)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 05:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
In-Reply-To: <F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra>
References: <F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra>
Message-ID: <637510.68614.qm@web63307.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

see www.google.com/ipv6

I believe the .edus have Internet2 access, which may not be visible from where you sit.

Media companies tend to distribute their content through CDNs, which are a mixed bag; some have declared IPv6 support soon, and some have resisted IPv6.

A significant percentage of networks have said they plan to support IPv6 by end of 2010.  No consumer electronics vendor has said that.  So, while I agree that we need to keep leaning on networks (and the web servers within them), as an industry they're moving in the right direction, unlike the people with boxes in the home.

Lee




>
>From: John Brown <john at citylinkfiber.com>
>To: Paul Vixie <vixie at isc.org>; arin-discuss at arin.net
>Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2009 10:45:10 PM
>Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
>
>RE: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank? >
>
>
>I would also add that technology supplier isn't the only place that needs work.
>
>>Based on a brief survey of websites very few if any returned AAAA records for www.DOMAIN-NAME.com
>
>www.cnn.com 
>www.mit.edu
>www.harvard.edu
>www.abc.com
>www.microsoft.com
>www.google.com
>www.yahoo.com
>
>>the above did NOT return any IPv6 data.  Unless I'm doing something wrong with
>
>>dig www.DOMAIN-NAME.com aaaa
>
>>Since that did return IPv6 data when I did www.arin.net or www.icann.org  or www.isc.org
>
>>Got to have places for the eye-balls to goto, ergo content needs to be available via the protocol.
>>That will help drive the end-users, which will drive the service providers, the equipment providers, etc.
>
>>It is an eco-system issue we are dealing with.
>
>>Just my $0::2/128 worth.
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net on behalf of Paul Vixie
>>Sent: Thu 9/24/2009 7:49 AM
>>To: arin-discuss at arin.net
>>Subject: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
>
>>> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:40:54 +0100
>>> From: <michael.dillon at bt.com>
>>> ...
>>> Maybe ARIN could organize an IPv6 awareness sprint, and provide a room
>>> full of phones, with coffee and snacks for the volunteers?
>
>>this could be done, and would be among other things a great experience of
>>shared pain, shared fun, and shared learning for all.  (and i can see a
>>way to extend it beyond that room on that day, using a ticket system after
>>we get back to our own offices.)  however, one part of the challenge seems
>>daunting:
>
>>> Any would-be heroes should sit down at the phone and start calling minor
>>> equipment vendors and software vendors to find out when they will support
>>> IPv6. Any bit of software used in network operational support or by home
>>> users needs to be IPv6 capable.
>
>>how should we build the target list, since many of our vendors are several
>>layers deep behind resellers, and since pounding on the resellers may be
>>like pushing on ropes?
>
>>overall i'm intrigued by this idea, it's a great use of ARIN's resources --
>>and i mean especially the talents and contacts of *all* of the people here,
>>not just ARIN staff/board/council.
>
>>paul vixie
>>chairman
>>ARIN BoT
>>_______________________________________________
>>ARIN-Discuss
>>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>>Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
>
> 


      
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From vixie at isc.org  Mon Oct  5 11:24:54 2009
From: vixie at isc.org (Paul Vixie)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:24:54 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 04 Oct 2009 20:45:10 CST."
	<F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra>
References: <F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra>
Message-ID: <62207.1254756294@nsa.vix.com>

> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 20:45:10 -0600
> From: "John Brown" <john at citylinkfiber.com>
> ... did NOT return any IPv6 data.  Unless I'm doing something wrong with
> 
> dig www.DOMAIN-NAME.com aaaa

you must be, because

> Since that did return IPv6 data when I did www.arin.net or www.icann.org
> or www.isc.org

[nsa:amd64] dig +short www.google.com aaaa
www.l.google.com.
2001:4860:b005::68
[nsa:amd64] dig +short www.arin.net aaaa
2001:500:4:13::81
2001:500:4:13::80
[nsa:amd64] dig +short www.isc.org aaaa
2001:4f8:0:2::d
[nsa:amd64] dig +short www.icann.org aaaa
2620:0:2d0:200::7

on the other hand if you're not seeing this then ipv6 is by definition
too hard to get running inside your network and inside your DNS.  oops.


From marty at akamai.com  Mon Oct  5 11:46:21 2009
From: marty at akamai.com (Martin Hannigan)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:46:21 +0100
Subject: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
In-Reply-To: <62207.1254756294@nsa.vix.com>
References: <F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra>
	<62207.1254756294@nsa.vix.com>
Message-ID: <E8920521-05C4-4C6C-B604-F048897A3D27@akamai.com>



Are you really going to do a phone bank to call vendors? I think it's  
a good idea, but isn't this problem like a stack? Wouldn't content / 
producers/ be on bottom of the stack and the most effective place to  
start to drive some clue? Aren't the content owners going to be the  
ones that ultimately have to drive the boat?



technology
politics
operators
cdn's
content owners <---

Best,


-M<



On Oct 5, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Paul Vixie wrote:

> > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 20:45:10 -0600
> > From: "John Brown" <john at citylinkfiber.com>
> > ... did NOT return any IPv6 data.  Unless I'm doing something  
> wrong with
> >
> > dig www.DOMAIN-NAME.com aaaa
>
> you must be, because
>
> > Since that did return IPv6 data when I did www.arin.net or www.icann.org
> > or www.isc.org
>
> [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.google.com aaaa
> www.l.google.com.
> 2001:4860:b005::68
> [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.arin.net aaaa
> 2001:500:4:13::81
> 2001:500:4:13::80
> [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.isc.org aaaa
> 2001:4f8:0:2::d
> [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.icann.org aaaa
> 2620:0:2d0:200::7
>
> on the other hand if you're not seeing this then ipv6 is by definition
> too hard to get running inside your network and inside your DNS.   
> oops.
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>



From spiffnolee at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  5 13:33:32 2009
From: spiffnolee at yahoo.com (Lee Howard)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 10:33:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
In-Reply-To: <E8920521-05C4-4C6C-B604-F048897A3D27@akamai.com>
References: <F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra>
	<62207.1254756294@nsa.vix.com>
	<E8920521-05C4-4C6C-B604-F048897A3D27@akamai.com>
Message-ID: <881989.35569.qm@web63303.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

It doesn't matter to me if content owners use IPv4 to speak to their CDNs,
if the CDNs use IPv6 to disseminate that content.  It's the end users who
generate the demand for IP addresses, so the stuff they access is what needs
to be on IPv6.

I don't see it like a stack, I see it like an ecosystem.  

Lee



----- Original Message ----
> From: Martin Hannigan <marty at akamai.com>
> To: Paul Vixie <vixie at isc.org>
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 11:46:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you really going to do a phone bank to call vendors? I think it's a good 
> idea, but isn't this problem like a stack? Wouldn't content /producers/ be on 
> bottom of the stack and the most effective place to start to drive some clue? 
> Aren't the content owners going to be the ones that ultimately have to drive the 
> boat?
> 
> 
> 
> technology
> politics
> operators
> cdn's
> content owners <---
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> -M<
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 5, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Paul Vixie wrote:
> 
> > > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 20:45:10 -0600
> > > From: "John Brown" 
> > > ... did NOT return any IPv6 data.  Unless I'm doing something wrong with
> > >
> > > dig www.DOMAIN-NAME.com aaaa
> > 
> > you must be, because
> > 
> > > Since that did return IPv6 data when I did www.arin.net or www.icann.org
> > > or www.isc.org
> > 
> > [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.google.com aaaa
> > www.l.google.com.
> > 2001:4860:b005::68
> > [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.arin.net aaaa
> > 2001:500:4:13::81
> > 2001:500:4:13::80
> > [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.isc.org aaaa
> > 2001:4f8:0:2::d
> > [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.icann.org aaaa
> > 2620:0:2d0:200::7
> > 
> > on the other hand if you're not seeing this then ipv6 is by definition
> > too hard to get running inside your network and inside your DNS.  oops.
> > _______________________________________________
> > ARIN-Discuss
> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> > the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.



      


From tedm at ipinc.net  Mon Oct  5 13:51:04 2009
From: tedm at ipinc.net (Ted Mittelstaedt)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:51:04 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
In-Reply-To: <881989.35569.qm@web63303.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra>	<62207.1254756294@nsa.vix.com>	<E8920521-05C4-4C6C-B604-F048897A3D27@akamai.com>
	<881989.35569.qm@web63303.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4ACA3208.3060702@ipinc.net>

Lee Howard wrote:
> It doesn't matter to me if content owners use IPv4 to speak to their CDNs,
> if the CDNs use IPv6 to disseminate that content.  It's the end users who
> generate the demand for IP addresses, so the stuff they access is what needs
> to be on IPv6.
> 

You all might be interested to know that the latest version of the Avira
antivirus program (this is a free AV client program for windows that is
popular on end user systems) now does it's nightly signature updates by 
attempting to make a connection to it's update servers through IPv6 
first, then if that fails it falls back to IPv4.  It avoids the DNS 
issues because it uses a list of fixed server IPv6/IPv4 addresses stored 
in the program.

So, it's coming on the end-user side, but slowly.

Ted


> I don't see it like a stack, I see it like an ecosystem.  
> 
> Lee
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Martin Hannigan <marty at akamai.com>
>> To: Paul Vixie <vixie at isc.org>
>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
>> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 11:46:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you really going to do a phone bank to call vendors? I think it's a good 
>> idea, but isn't this problem like a stack? Wouldn't content /producers/ be on 
>> bottom of the stack and the most effective place to start to drive some clue? 
>> Aren't the content owners going to be the ones that ultimately have to drive the 
>> boat?
>>
>>
>>
>> technology
>> politics
>> operators
>> cdn's
>> content owners <---
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> -M<
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 5, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Paul Vixie wrote:
>>
>>>> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 20:45:10 -0600
>>>> From: "John Brown" 
>>>> ... did NOT return any IPv6 data.  Unless I'm doing something wrong with
>>>>
>>>> dig www.DOMAIN-NAME.com aaaa
>>> you must be, because
>>>
>>>> Since that did return IPv6 data when I did www.arin.net or www.icann.org
>>>> or www.isc.org
>>> [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.google.com aaaa
>>> www.l.google.com.
>>> 2001:4860:b005::68
>>> [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.arin.net aaaa
>>> 2001:500:4:13::81
>>> 2001:500:4:13::80
>>> [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.isc.org aaaa
>>> 2001:4f8:0:2::d
>>> [nsa:amd64] dig +short www.icann.org aaaa
>>> 2620:0:2d0:200::7
>>>
>>> on the other hand if you're not seeing this then ipv6 is by definition
>>> too hard to get running inside your network and inside your DNS.  oops.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-Discuss
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.



From morrowc.lists at gmail.com  Mon Oct  5 13:49:01 2009
From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 13:49:01 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
In-Reply-To: <881989.35569.qm@web63303.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra>
	<62207.1254756294@nsa.vix.com>
	<E8920521-05C4-4C6C-B604-F048897A3D27@akamai.com>
	<881989.35569.qm@web63303.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <75cb24520910051049i3a992e9ew321002a4bf5df256@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Lee Howard <spiffnolee at yahoo.com> wrote:
> It doesn't matter to me if content owners use IPv4 to speak to their CDNs,
> if the CDNs use IPv6 to disseminate that content. ?It's the end users who
> generate the demand for IP addresses, so the stuff they access is what needs

s/demand for IP addresses/demand to see stuff on the internets/

Of course what falls from that is: "no ip address == no internets to view"

> I don't see it like a stack, I see it like an ecosystem.

yes


From Grant.Kirkwood at mzima.net  Mon Oct  5 18:07:28 2009
From: Grant.Kirkwood at mzima.net (Grant Kirkwood)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 15:07:28 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Missing IP Range in WhoIs
In-Reply-To: <75cb24520910012221j7152ac42he87eb0d225550fe0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200910020114750.SM00652@mikesplace>,
	<75cb24520910012221j7152ac42he87eb0d225550fe0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D096DABFF71049499697CA5DE8D2817D0303C15F59@mzima-exch.southcentral.mzima.net>

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We verified that this was indeed "borrowed" space and dropped it from the customer's prefix-list.

Cheers,
Grant


________________________________________
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Christopher Morrow [morrowc.lists at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:21 PM
To: Michael Thomas
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net; support at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] Missing IP Range in WhoIs

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Michael Thomas <mike at mathbox.com> wrote:
> On checking a spam source IP address for ownership, I discovered that the
> ARIN Whois database has no records for 68.234.16.0 - 68.234.31.255, but
> traceroutes to 68.234.16.11 and 68.234.31.11 lead back to verizon-gni.net.

really? I see it traceroute to mzima/colo-jax.. and routeviews shows
origin AS40430:

show ip bgp 68.234.16.1
BGP routing table entry for 68.234.16.0/20
Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
 Not advertised to any peer
 11537 25973 40430
   198.108.93.41 from 198.108.63.41 (198.108.63.41)
     Origin IGP, metric 905, localpref 110, valid, internal, best
     Community: 237:1 237:1300 237:11537 11537:25200
     Extended Community: RT:11537:1
     Last update: Wed Sep 23 14:08:53 2009

note mzima has some whacky routing loop going on there as well for
some of the  /20... (agreed that there are no ARIN records/whois for
this block, perhaps it got reclaimed?)

-chris

> Michael Thomas
> Mathbox
> 978-687-3300
> Toll Free: 1-877-MATHBOX (1-877-628-4269)
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>

From marty at akamai.com  Tue Oct  6 05:56:29 2009
From: marty at akamai.com (Martin Hannigan)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 10:56:29 +0100
Subject: [arin-discuss] ipv6 technology supplier phone bank?
In-Reply-To: <75cb24520910051049i3a992e9ew321002a4bf5df256@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F70BCC55F4F2F14888D450E441159C240169A5@deathstar2.citylinkfiber.intra><62207.1254756294@nsa.vix.com><E8920521-05C4-4C6C-B604-F048897A3D27@akamai.com><881989.35569.qm@web63303.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<75cb24520910051049i3a992e9ew321002a4bf5df256@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <84703B57-E435-4ABB-B801-311752172970@akamai.com>


On Oct 5, 2009, at 6:49 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Lee Howard <spiffnolee at yahoo.com>  
> wrote:
> > It doesn't matter to me if content owners use IPv4 to speak to  
> their CDNs,
> > if the CDNs use IPv6 to disseminate that content.  It's the end  
> users who
> > generate the demand for IP addresses, so the stuff they access is  
> what needs
>
> s/demand for IP addresses/demand to see stuff on the internets/
>
> Of course what falls from that is: "no ip address == no internets to  
> view"
>
> > I don't see it like a stack, I see it like an ecosystem.
>
> yes
>


If it is an ecosystem, it's overloaded with viruses.


-M<


From steve at ibctech.ca  Fri Oct 23 00:12:05 2009
From: steve at ibctech.ca (Steve Bertrand)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 00:12:05 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
Message-ID: <4AE12D15.3010502@ibctech.ca>

As I've said before, I unfortunately don't have the time to closely
follow all of the happenings of each proposal, so I'm curious...

Are there any regulations, policies or allowances that would permit me
to grant another ARIN member to act on my behalf, and increase their
approve/non-approve by +1?

Example:

Although I can't follow to the 't', I've been following certain
proposals close enough that there is a particular member who I feel has
represented my feelings for quite some time. This person has been both
vocal and active, and responds to criticism professionally, diligently
and (essentially) very well.

Throughout this time period (months), this person has demonstrated my
beliefs and desires without me saying a word to them, or anyone.

Because I have grown faith and trust in this person over the months in
regards to a certain proposal, I would like to attach to them a +1 (if
you please) to however they vote on the proposal.

I'm sure this isn't allowed, but I thought I'd ask. Do ARIN politics
allow for such a thing?

Steve


From steve at ibctech.ca  Fri Oct 23 01:06:29 2009
From: steve at ibctech.ca (Steve Bertrand)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:06:29 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
In-Reply-To: <4AE12D15.3010502@ibctech.ca>
References: <4AE12D15.3010502@ibctech.ca>
Message-ID: <4AE139D5.2000407@ibctech.ca>

Steve Bertrand wrote:

> Because I have grown faith and trust in this person over the months in
> regards to a certain proposal, I would like to attach to them a +1 (if
> you please) to however they vote on the proposal.
> 
> I'm sure this isn't allowed, but I thought I'd ask. Do ARIN politics
> allow for such a thing?

Or perhaps rephrased (during the sleepless hours I'm facing due to the
influx of ARIN/NANOG info all at once ;) ...

Can ARIN legal, under current mandate, _prevent_ a member from acting as
a proxy vote-holder?

Steve


From scottleibrand at gmail.com  Fri Oct 23 01:16:52 2009
From: scottleibrand at gmail.com (Scott Leibrand)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:16:52 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
In-Reply-To: <4AE139D5.2000407@ibctech.ca>
References: <4AE12D15.3010502@ibctech.ca> <4AE139D5.2000407@ibctech.ca>
Message-ID: <4AE13C44.6050603@gmail.com>

Steve Bertrand wrote:
> Steve Bertrand wrote:
>
>   
>> Because I have grown faith and trust in this person over the months in
>> regards to a certain proposal, I would like to attach to them a +1 (if
>> you please) to however they vote on the proposal.
>>
>> I'm sure this isn't allowed, but I thought I'd ask. Do ARIN politics
>> allow for such a thing?
>>     
>
> Or perhaps rephrased (during the sleepless hours I'm facing due to the
> influx of ARIN/NANOG info all at once ;) ...
>
> Can ARIN legal, under current mandate, _prevent_ a member from acting as
> a proxy vote-holder?

There are two types of "voting".  There is electronic voting for Board 
and AC members, where each DMR logs in and votes online.  You can 
obviously "get help" with that voting from whomever you wish, and you 
have about a week to do so.

But I think you're referring to the "shows of hands" (aka "votes") at 
the Public Policy Meeting.  Those are non-binding, informational polls 
taken for the benefit of the AC of all the participants in the room and 
participating remotely online.  There's no need to be a member to 
participate, but on the other hand there's no way for one person's 
participation to count for more than anyone else's.

So, I don't think proxy voting really applies in the ARIN context.  All 
binding votes are done online, and for policy stuff, they just do a 
non-binding show of hands (plus remote participants).

-Scott


From steve at ibctech.ca  Fri Oct 23 01:20:47 2009
From: steve at ibctech.ca (Steve Bertrand)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:20:47 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
In-Reply-To: <4AE13C44.6050603@gmail.com>
References: <4AE12D15.3010502@ibctech.ca> <4AE139D5.2000407@ibctech.ca>
	<4AE13C44.6050603@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AE13D2F.20307@ibctech.ca>

Scott Leibrand wrote:
> Steve Bertrand wrote:
>> Steve Bertrand wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> Because I have grown faith and trust in this person over the months in
>>> regards to a certain proposal, I would like to attach to them a +1 (if
>>> you please) to however they vote on the proposal.
>>>
>>> I'm sure this isn't allowed, but I thought I'd ask. Do ARIN politics
>>> allow for such a thing?
>>>     
>>
>> Or perhaps rephrased (during the sleepless hours I'm facing due to the
>> influx of ARIN/NANOG info all at once ;) ...
>>
>> Can ARIN legal, under current mandate, _prevent_ a member from acting as
>> a proxy vote-holder?
> 
> There are two types of "voting".  There is electronic voting for Board
> and AC members, where each DMR logs in and votes online.  You can
> obviously "get help" with that voting from whomever you wish, and you
> have about a week to do so.
> 
> But I think you're referring to the "shows of hands" (aka "votes") at
> the Public Policy Meeting.  Those are non-binding, informational polls
> taken for the benefit of the AC of all the participants in the room and
> participating remotely online.  There's no need to be a member to
> participate, but on the other hand there's no way for one person's
> participation to count for more than anyone else's.
> 
> So, I don't think proxy voting really applies in the ARIN context.  All
> binding votes are done online, and for policy stuff, they just do a
> non-binding show of hands (plus remote participants).

Ok, thanks Scott.

You understood completely what I was after (the non-binding 'show of
hands' for policy stuff).

Thanks for the clarification.

Steve


From scottleibrand at gmail.com  Fri Oct 23 01:29:36 2009
From: scottleibrand at gmail.com (Scott Leibrand)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:29:36 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
In-Reply-To: <4AE13D2F.20307@ibctech.ca>
References: <4AE12D15.3010502@ibctech.ca> <4AE139D5.2000407@ibctech.ca>
	<4AE13C44.6050603@gmail.com> <4AE13D2F.20307@ibctech.ca>
Message-ID: <4AE13F40.6090407@gmail.com>

Steve Bertrand wrote:
>
> Ok, thanks Scott.
>
> You understood completely what I was after (the non-binding 'show of
> hands' for policy stuff).
>
> Thanks for the clarification.
>
> Steve
>   

You're welcome.  Also keep in mind that all forms of participation, 
including on PPML, are considered by the AC in making any policy 
decision.  So even if you can't participate remotely in the meeting, or 
haven't made up your mind at the time the poll is taken, you're welcome 
to share your opinion, or support someone else's, on PPML after the 
fact.  The AC usually meets the afternoon after the member meeting 
(Friday afternoon this week), so now is a great time to participate if 
you have any additional thoughts or opinions to share.

Thanks,
Scott


From owen at delong.com  Fri Oct 23 09:04:40 2009
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 06:04:40 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
In-Reply-To: <4AE12D15.3010502@ibctech.ca>
References: <4AE12D15.3010502@ibctech.ca>
Message-ID: <799A2D1E-C8E2-4006-B26A-7700DC8A471F@delong.com>

/* Standard Disclaimer */

This is my interpretation and mine alone, not a message from the AC,
ARIN, etc.

/* Text */

I don't believe proxies are allowed, but, to express your support or
non-support for a proposal it can be as simple as sending a message
to the ARIN list, which, can even be as simple as saying "+1" to what
the person you were considering as a proxy said.

The Advisory council, when evaluating policy, is tasked with, among
other factors (technically sound, etc.) evaluating the level of  
community
consensus.  This is a simple term with a very complex meaning, and,
we do the best we can to incorporate as much input as is available
to us in that evaluation.  The show of hands in the room is just one
of the tools we use. Comments on the mailing list do carry quite a
bit of weight as well, especially when they clearly state "I support"
or "I do not support" this proposal.

Hope that helps.

Owen

On Oct 22, 2009, at 9:12 PM, Steve Bertrand wrote:

> As I've said before, I unfortunately don't have the time to closely
> follow all of the happenings of each proposal, so I'm curious...
>
> Are there any regulations, policies or allowances that would permit me
> to grant another ARIN member to act on my behalf, and increase their
> approve/non-approve by +1?
>
> Example:
>
> Although I can't follow to the 't', I've been following certain
> proposals close enough that there is a particular member who I feel  
> has
> represented my feelings for quite some time. This person has been both
> vocal and active, and responds to criticism professionally, diligently
> and (essentially) very well.
>
> Throughout this time period (months), this person has demonstrated my
> beliefs and desires without me saying a word to them, or anyone.
>
> Because I have grown faith and trust in this person over the months in
> regards to a certain proposal, I would like to attach to them a +1 (if
> you please) to however they vote on the proposal.
>
> I'm sure this isn't allowed, but I thought I'd ask. Do ARIN politics
> allow for such a thing?
>
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.



From jmaimon at thejnet.com  Sat Oct 24 22:15:25 2009
From: jmaimon at thejnet.com (Joe Maimon)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:15:25 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
In-Reply-To: <4AE13C44.6050603@gmail.com>
References: <4AE12D15.3010502@ibctech.ca> <4AE139D5.2000407@ibctech.ca>
	<4AE13C44.6050603@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AE3B4BD.60403@thejnet.com>



Scott Leibrand wrote:

> There are two types of "voting".  There is electronic voting for Board 
> and AC members, where each DMR logs in and votes online.  You can 
> obviously "get help" with that voting from whomever you wish, and you 
> have about a week to do so.

https://www.arin.net/participate/membership/member.html

"
The DMR must have a name and personalized e-mail address on record with
the Member Services Department to be eligible to vote. The e-mail must
include the person's name or initials and the organization's domain name.
"

Only subsidiary organizations or similar seem to be aggregatable into a
single DMR account, allowing them to be voted simultaneously as desired.

This really does make it inconvenient to be the recipient of a bunch of
proxy clients.

Perhaps that is as it should be.

> 
> But I think you're referring to the "shows of hands" (aka "votes") at 
> the Public Policy Meeting.  Those are non-binding, informational polls 
> taken for the benefit of the AC of all the participants in the room and 
> participating remotely online.  There's no need to be a member to 
> participate, but on the other hand there's no way for one person's 
> participation to count for more than anyone else's.

This is as it should be, if you are not able to put out enough signal
for the AC to be able to receive it, you probably are not in close
enough range.


Joe




From michael.dillon at bt.com  Mon Oct 26 05:42:18 2009
From: michael.dillon at bt.com (michael.dillon at bt.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:42:18 -0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
In-Reply-To: <799A2D1E-C8E2-4006-B26A-7700DC8A471F@delong.com>
Message-ID: <28E139F46D45AF49A31950F88C49745803B9084D@E03MVZ2-UKDY.domain1.systemhost.net>

> I don't believe proxies are allowed, but, to express your 
> support or non-support for a proposal it can be as simple as 
> sending a message to the ARIN list, which, can even be as 
> simple as saying "+1" to what the person you were considering 
> as a proxy said.

Yukkk! Please don't send +1 messages to PPML

> Comments on the mailing list do carry quite a 
> bit of weight as well, especially when they clearly state "I support"
> or "I do not support" this proposal.

Yes, a single sentence in plain English is far superior to computerese. 

--Michael Dillon


From rs at seastrom.com  Mon Oct 26 08:20:31 2009
From: rs at seastrom.com (Robert E. Seastrom)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:20:31 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
In-Reply-To: <28E139F46D45AF49A31950F88C49745803B9084D@E03MVZ2-UKDY.domain1.systemhost.net>
	(michael dillon's message of "Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:42:18 -0000")
References: <28E139F46D45AF49A31950F88C49745803B9084D@E03MVZ2-UKDY.domain1.systemhost.net>
Message-ID: <863a564a9c.fsf@seastrom.com>


<michael.dillon at bt.com> writes:

>> I don't believe proxies are allowed, but, to express your 
>> support or non-support for a proposal it can be as simple as 
>> sending a message to the ARIN list, which, can even be as 
>> simple as saying "+1" to what the person you were considering 
>> as a proxy said.
>
> Yukkk! Please don't send +1 messages to PPML
>
>> Comments on the mailing list do carry quite a 
>> bit of weight as well, especially when they clearly state "I support"
>> or "I do not support" this proposal.
>
> Yes, a single sentence in plain English is far superior to computerese. 

I'm a member of but do not speak for the AC.  My personal take is the
more feedback on policy proposals the better, regardless of whether it
conforms to Mr. Dillon's syntactical stipulations.  +1, while terse,
is entirely understandable and far better than deafening silence when
it comes to figuring out whether the community is in favor of or
opposed.

-r



From jay at impulse.net  Mon Oct 26 12:38:38 2009
From: jay at impulse.net (Jay Hennigan)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:38:38 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
In-Reply-To: <28E139F46D45AF49A31950F88C49745803B9084D@E03MVZ2-UKDY.domain1.systemhost.net>
References: <28E139F46D45AF49A31950F88C49745803B9084D@E03MVZ2-UKDY.domain1.systemhost.net>
Message-ID: <4AE5D08E.60500@impulse.net>

michael.dillon at bt.com wrote:

> Yukkk! Please don't send +1 messages to PPML

+1

(Jay ducks and runs for cover...)

-- 
Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net
Impulse Internet Service  -  http://www.impulse.net/
Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV


From owen at delong.com  Mon Oct 26 13:30:51 2009
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:30:51 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
In-Reply-To: <28E139F46D45AF49A31950F88C49745803B9084D@E03MVZ2-UKDY.domain1.systemhost.net>
References: <28E139F46D45AF49A31950F88C49745803B9084D@E03MVZ2-UKDY.domain1.systemhost.net>
Message-ID: <F4E801DC-7270-4770-AD4D-05BFAF28AE2A@delong.com>


On Oct 26, 2009, at 2:42 AM, <michael.dillon at bt.com> wrote:

>> I don't believe proxies are allowed, but, to express your
>> support or non-support for a proposal it can be as simple as
>> sending a message to the ARIN list, which, can even be as
>> simple as saying "+1" to what the person you were considering
>> as a proxy said.
>
> Yukkk! Please don't send +1 messages to PPML
>
Michael,

	While I agree that a statement of support is better than a +1,
I, for one, as someone the community has tasked with evaluating
policies and community consensus would rather hear a +1 or a -1,
or whatever from people than nothing at all.

Owen



From steve at ibctech.ca  Mon Oct 26 21:14:40 2009
From: steve at ibctech.ca (Steve Bertrand)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:14:40 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] Proxy support
In-Reply-To: <4AE12D15.3010502@ibctech.ca>
References: <4AE12D15.3010502@ibctech.ca>
Message-ID: <4AE64980.6060202@ibctech.ca>

Steve Bertrand wrote:
> As I've said before, I unfortunately don't have the time to closely
> follow all of the happenings of each proposal, so I'm curious...

All,

I want to thank everyone for their feedback I received regarding this
topic, on and off-list. The feedback I received was very concise and
understandable. Particular thanks to Scott and Owen.

The use of '+1' was intended as a proverbial example, as I'm sure most
of you know ;)

Steve


From steve at ibctech.ca  Mon Oct 26 21:27:44 2009
From: steve at ibctech.ca (Steve Bertrand)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:27:44 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN XXIV notes by Matthew Petach
Message-ID: <4AE64C90.6010306@ibctech.ca>

I just want to publicly thank Matt for his work on keeping me informed
on the happenings of the conference reliably each half-day.

'twas unfortunate that I couldn't be there, but your notes kept me
up-to-date with what was happening, and who was saying what. This
Canadian ARIN member will most certainly try his best to be in Toronto
next year.

You did an excellent job, and I appreciate it very much. The detail was
quite incredible. You provided me with a 1/2 hour with each update (at
least) of sitting back at my desk relaxing while I read your notes.

After the first day, I got to looking forward to your updates while on
my way to work.

Thank you.

Regards,

Steve



From ipgoddess.arin at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 12:24:01 2009
From: ipgoddess.arin at gmail.com (Stacy Hughes)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:24:01 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN XXIV notes by Matthew Petach
In-Reply-To: <4AE64C90.6010306@ibctech.ca>
References: <4AE64C90.6010306@ibctech.ca>
Message-ID: <24c86a5f0910270924va0e3c1cj68a16c92df850047@mail.gmail.com>

Let me add my hands to the round of applause Matt definitely deserves.
 Thanks, Matt!  You are an asset to the community!
Stacy

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Steve Bertrand <steve at ibctech.ca> wrote:

> I just want to publicly thank Matt for his work on keeping me informed
> on the happenings of the conference reliably each half-day.
>
> 'twas unfortunate that I couldn't be there, but your notes kept me
> up-to-date with what was happening, and who was saying what. This
> Canadian ARIN member will most certainly try his best to be in Toronto
> next year.
>
> You did an excellent job, and I appreciate it very much. The detail was
> quite incredible. You provided me with a 1/2 hour with each update (at
> least) of sitting back at my desk relaxing while I read your notes.
>
> After the first day, I got to looking forward to your updates while on
> my way to work.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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