From jrhett at svcolo.com  Mon Mar  2 17:21:34 2009
From: jrhett at svcolo.com (Jo Rhett)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:21:34 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
In-Reply-To: <49A7519F.2080200@gmail.com>
References: <A6C0AD43-733C-484A-98C1-D19AB6A52497@svcolo.com>
	<49A7519F.2080200@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F5873482-C939-47AE-A508-CF63FAFE7188@svcolo.com>

On Feb 26, 2009, at 6:36 PM, Scott Leibrand wrote:
> I was not involved in any discussions around that notice, but when I  
> got it, I interpreted it as saying, "We're aware of a problem, and  
> believe it may affect a lot of you.  We can't fix it for you, but  
> here's what you need to know to get it fixed if you're affected."


A notice which said "it has been reported about these vendors: x, y,  
z" and here is the contact information "...-... name at blah" or  
something would that would have been useful.

Saying that "it might have happened from some unspecified vendors, and  
if its happening to you then you should go chat with unspecified  
parties" is completely lacking in content.

-- 
Jo Rhett
senior geek

Silicon Valley Colocation
Support Phone: 408-400-0550






From jrhett at svcolo.com  Mon Mar  2 17:24:54 2009
From: jrhett at svcolo.com (Jo Rhett)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:24:54 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
In-Reply-To: <49A75E05.5080008@gmail.com>
References: <A6C0AD43-733C-484A-98C1-D19AB6A52497@svcolo.com><49A7519F.2080200@gmail.com>	<DC76105D2E40E841BB8615F1E3C682B510B06DB17B@EXMBXVS01.hosting.local>	<001f01c99886$d5b665b0$6401a8c0@ACGIABB01><002c01c99888$b1bdccf0$153966d0$@berkman@reignmaker.net>
	<111810398-1235704517-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1153603308-@bxe1124.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<49A75E05.5080008@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <98F3850E-6DB6-4391-B947-038B713AAAAC@svcolo.com>

No, they didn't.  I know for a fact that most large companies have  
explicit filters that toss out anything which goes to all of the ARIN  
contact addresses.  It is always spam.

We toss it into a box where I manually report each instance of these,  
because I specifically want to nail anything abusing the ARIN whois  
database.  And lo and behold, it was ARIN correspondence in there.

On Feb 26, 2009, at 7:29 PM, Scott Leibrand wrote:
> Don't forget, every company in a position to fix this *did* get the  
> same
> e-mail you did.  I suspect they're quite aware of the issue now (if  
> they
> weren't before), and working to get it fixed.
>
> -Scott
>
> Kelvin Williams wrote:
>> Please don't take the following as me being a smarta** but this is  
>> ARIN we are talking about. Each of these service providers more  
>> than likely have a direct allocation, and therefore ARIN has  
>> quality contact information for them.
>>
>> When Joe the IP Engineer calls Google he doesn't get anything but  
>> an IVR that instructs him to submit an email or web form. Which is  
>> ignored. We've done this.
>>
>> However if Google's (and, I apologize in advance for using them in  
>> my example) designated ARIN contact receives a notice from ARIN,  
>> I'm willing to bet he or she is more apt to respond.
>>
>> So why does David have to fight Goliath's battle?
>>
>> Kw
>>
>>
>> Kelvin Williams
>> Altus Communications Group, Inc.
>> Office Direct: 678.369.5968
>> Office Main: 678.369.5970
>> Fax: 866.895.8557
>> Mobile: 678.852.4173
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone with SprintSpeed
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Scott Berkman" <scott.berkman at reignmaker.net>
>>
>> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:02:03
>> To: 'Kelvin Williams'<kwilliams at altuscgi.com>; <arin- 
>> discuss at arin.net>
>> Subject: RE: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
>>
>>
>> My best guess is this is exactly what they were trying to avoid.  I  
>> bet it
>> they have been getting inundated themselves with calls/emails about  
>> these
>> issues, but can't actually fix it since they don't control their  
>> services.
>>
>> I'd do something similar if my customers were flooding us about an  
>> issue
>> that wasn't our fault and we couldn't fix on our own.
>>
>> Not saying they couldn't have had a better, more helpful email, but  
>> I get
>> why they sent it.
>>
>> 	-Scott
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net 
>> ]
>> On Behalf Of Kelvin Williams
>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:55 PM
>> To: arin-discuss at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
>>
>> I would have to concur.  As a current holder of a block in the  
>> affected
>> ranges our helpdesk has been inundated with complaint calls from our
>> end-users.  For example, Google redirects our users with IPs in the
>> affected
>> ranges to their German version, etc.
>>
>> While we haven't experienced any true routing issues, we have tried  
>> to
>> contact some of the content providers and companies like Google to no
>> avail.
>>
>>
>> At the bare minimum, ARIN could have provided to block holders via  
>> the new
>> superduper secure website contact numbers or e-mail addresses to the
>> organizations which we know are causing these types of issues.  We  
>> have
>> all
>> but abandoned any hopes of resolving the issue and merely crossed our
>> fingers in hopes that these content and geo-location providers would
>> re-query ARIN's WHOIS at some time in the immediate future.
>>
>> I can't speak for all, but at our company, we don't have anyone  
>> available
>> to
>> research for contacts, fill out web-forms-to-nowhere, or leave  
>> voicemails
>> all day in mailboxes that don't get checked.
>>
>> kw
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net 
>> ]
>> On Behalf Of Sean Cheesman
>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:40 PM
>> To: Scott Leibrand; Jo Rhett
>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
>>
>> I disagree that this was a reasonable statement from ARIN.  They  
>> listed no
>> examples of what "content providers" are causing problems, and only  
>> leave
>> it
>> up to us to determine if there is a problem, and then try to  
>> resolve it on
>> our own.  Yes, it may now be easier to troubleshoot a problem  
>> because now
>> I
>> may say "hey, didn't I get an email from ARIN a while back warning  
>> me of a
>> problem?" but that doesn't really help me be proactive about the  
>> issue.
>>
>> Sean
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net 
>> ]
>> On Behalf Of Scott Leibrand
>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:36 PM
>> To: Jo Rhett
>> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
>> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
>>
>> Jo,
>>
>> I was not involved in any discussions around that notice, but when  
>> I got
>> it, I interpreted it as saying, "We're aware of a problem, and  
>> believe
>> it may affect a lot of you.  We can't fix it for you, but here's what
>> you need to know to get it fixed if you're affected."
>>
>> Quite reasonable, IMO.
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>> Jo Rhett wrote:
>>
>>> Can someone explain to me why ARIN spammed all of our ARIN contacts
>>> (including (A)buse contacts!) with a notice that says "talk to the
>>> hand" ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you or your peers experience any of these types of problems, you
>>>> are
>>>> encouraged to contact and work with third-party information  
>>>> software
>>>> vendors
>>>> and/or the content providers directly to effect changes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> If ARIN can not and will not do anything to contact these parties  
>>> and
>>> get it resolved, why does it send a notice telling us with this?   
>>> Next
>>> week will we see a notice that ARIN won't be involved in saving
>>> starving children in Africa?  I imagine that ARIN will be very busy
>>> informing us of every thing it does not plan to work on ... is this
>>> helpful?  Honestly?
>>>
>>> Entire message below:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Per a request from an ARIN customer, ARIN is sending you this  
>>>> letter
>>>> as
>>>> a courtesy notification of problems some registrants of ARIN-issued
>>>> IPv4
>>>> addresses have experienced.
>>>>
>>>> Some geolocation and content providers are misidentifying ARIN- 
>>>> issued
>>>> address space as being outside the ARIN region. Common problems
>>>> experienced
>>>> by ARIN registrants over the last two years include:
>>>>
>>>> - search engines misidentifying the addresses as being in South
>>>> America;
>>>> - content caching providers sending traffic via nodes in South
>>>> America; and
>>>> - e-commerce transactions failing or being delaying due to fraud
>>>> prevention
>>>> procedures being triggered when the payment processing system
>>>> believes the
>>>> transaction is originating in South America.
>>>>
>>>> Registrants have experienced these problems both with new IANA-
>>>> issued /8s
>>>> (like 173.0.0.0/8 and 174.0.0.0/8) and with /8s which ARIN has
>>>> issued and
>>>> re-issued over many years (like 63.0.0.0/8).
>>>>
>>>> If you or your peers experience any of these types of problems, you
>>>> are
>>>> encouraged to contact and work with third-party information  
>>>> software
>>>> vendors
>>>> and/or the content providers directly to effect changes.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Leslie Nobile
>>>> Director, Registration Services
>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>>
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Discuss
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
>> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

-- 
Jo Rhett
senior geek

Silicon Valley Colocation
Support Phone: 408-400-0550






From jrhett at svcolo.com  Mon Mar  2 17:27:47 2009
From: jrhett at svcolo.com (Jo Rhett)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:27:47 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
In-Reply-To: <49A766DF.4010606@kl.net>
References: <A6C0AD43-733C-484A-98C1-D19AB6A52497@svcolo.com>
	<49A766DF.4010606@kl.net>
Message-ID: <8ACBFD4D-F488-4881-8741-912C72E0CABB@svcolo.com>

On Feb 26, 2009, at 8:06 PM, Kevin Loch wrote:
> Jo Rhett wrote:
>> Can someone explain to me why ARIN spammed all of our ARIN  
>> contacts  (including (A)buse contacts!) with a notice that says  
>> "talk to the  hand" ?
>
> They probably knew that some of the contacts for a given poc may not
> work anymore.  It was totally inappropriate to send this to abuse
> contacts however.

Any more appropriate for NOC Role Account contacts?

I mean, be serious -- there is a POC that is not publically advertised  
and specifically designated for communications from ARIN.  Why was  
this NOT used, and was Abuse and NOC Role accounts used?  The logic  
here is completely back ***wards.

-- 
Jo Rhett
senior geek

Silicon Valley Colocation
Support Phone: 408-400-0550






From jrhett at svcolo.com  Mon Mar  2 17:32:03 2009
From: jrhett at svcolo.com (Jo Rhett)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:32:03 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
In-Reply-To: <49A8138E.6020009@verizonbusiness.com>
References: <602ACF092EFFB044931BD8746C19AD2F014E510D@gbcwswiem006.ad.plc.cwintra.com>
	<49A7C9FD.9050905@staff.openaccess.org>
	<49A8138E.6020009@verizonbusiness.com>
Message-ID: <B6F2E84A-8E1A-4926-A2EE-4C9AE13D5B8A@svcolo.com>

On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Heather Schiller wrote:
> I think what ARIN is trying to say is, we don't have control over  
> those
> networks, you have to work with the folks directly.  Remember that  
> ARIN
> makes no guarantee about the routability of a netblock, and can't  
> force

I don't have a problem with this statement on its face.  I never  
expected ARIN to be responsible for this.

I have a problem with receiving a message to every single POC contact  
*EXCEPT* the administrative POC that ARIN is *SUPPOSED* to use for  
communications about our account, saying "no news here, just move  
along".

This message did not need to be sent.  If a message did need to be  
sent, provide some useful content.  AND send the message to the  
appropriate POC contact.  Not the NOC role account, not the Abuse role  
account, etc.

-- 
Jo Rhett
senior geek

Silicon Valley Colocation
Support Phone: 408-400-0550






From jrhett at svcolo.com  Mon Mar  2 17:33:33 2009
From: jrhett at svcolo.com (Jo Rhett)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:33:33 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
In-Reply-To: <911E605F382BD4488E01018EC2BF1F570C0109EA@exchange2k7.adpw.pacwest.com>
References: <A6C0AD43-733C-484A-98C1-D19AB6A52497@svcolo.com>
	<49A7519F.2080200@gmail.com>
	<911E605F382BD4488E01018EC2BF1F570C0109EA@exchange2k7.adpw.pacwest.com>
Message-ID: <9A3FE10E-2DD4-4496-9D19-51AD81B7A2D0@svcolo.com>

On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Pete Templin wrote:
> Regardless of whether the message was reasonable, I think the  
> delivery method was flawed: I think the ARIN-announce mailing list  
> should have been the first method of announcement,

Why not the private, unlisted (in public whois) POC account for the  
ARIN account?  This falls under that charter.

There's no requirement that this POC contact be on this mailing list.

-- 
Jo Rhett
senior geek

Silicon Valley Colocation
Support Phone: 408-400-0550






From Matthew.Wilder at telus.com  Mon Mar  2 17:35:26 2009
From: Matthew.Wilder at telus.com (Matthew Wilder)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:35:26 -0700
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
In-Reply-To: <B6F2E84A-8E1A-4926-A2EE-4C9AE13D5B8A@svcolo.com>
References: <602ACF092EFFB044931BD8746C19AD2F014E510D@gbcwswiem006.ad.plc.cwintra.com>
	<49A7C9FD.9050905@staff.openaccess.org>
	<49A8138E.6020009@verizonbusiness.com>
	<B6F2E84A-8E1A-4926-A2EE-4C9AE13D5B8A@svcolo.com>
Message-ID: <DE229826F48ABD4CBF754E5AA6CFC14B1DDA0F7FB6@WP40044.corp.ads>

Speaking of SPAM, I've been getting a lot of emails from one Jo Rhett.  What's up with that?

-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Jo Rhett
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:32 PM
To: Heather Schiller
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Heather Schiller wrote:
> I think what ARIN is trying to say is, we don't have control over 
> those networks, you have to work with the folks directly.  Remember 
> that ARIN makes no guarantee about the routability of a netblock, and 
> can't force

I don't have a problem with this statement on its face.  I never expected ARIN to be responsible for this.

I have a problem with receiving a message to every single POC contact
*EXCEPT* the administrative POC that ARIN is *SUPPOSED* to use for communications about our account, saying "no news here, just move along".

This message did not need to be sent.  If a message did need to be sent, provide some useful content.  AND send the message to the appropriate POC contact.  Not the NOC role account, not the Abuse role account, etc.

--
Jo Rhett
senior geek

Silicon Valley Colocation
Support Phone: 408-400-0550




_______________________________________________
ARIN-Discuss
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.


From jrhett at svcolo.com  Mon Mar  2 17:40:51 2009
From: jrhett at svcolo.com (Jo Rhett)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:40:51 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] policy versus operations FAQ
In-Reply-To: <D6955BB0D975407BB6629BA0B30AFC8C@tedsdesk>
References: <A6C0AD43-733C-484A-98C1-D19AB6A52497@svcolo.com>
	<D6955BB0D975407BB6629BA0B30AFC8C@tedsdesk>
Message-ID: <3264ABB2-0FA4-4DA5-B0AE-C8F4F160072F@svcolo.com>

Ted, I wasn't going to reply to you because your statements are overly  
hot and insulting to the recipient.  I won't give you the attention  
you are seeking for that kind of behavior.

But this issue is a common FAQ about ARIN policy that many other  
people misunderstand so I'd like to make sure everyone sees this answer:

On Feb 27, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> ARIN is US and will do anything WE want.  If you want ARIN to
> start mediating then SUBMIT A POLICY MODIFICATION.


It has been well documented that ARIN policy does *NOT* include day to  
day operations.  We have as a whole been requested on numerous  
occasions not to make policy so explicit that ARIN cannot make  
operational decisions about how to implement policy.

I don't believe (although I may be convinced otherwise) that a policy  
change is required here.  I do believe that the current POC accounts  
are very well defined in their purpose and scope, and that this  
message was inappropriately sent to more than one of the POC contacts.  
I believe that my complaint is sustained by the current policy,  
without any changes to how it is written today.

That makes my complaint an operational matter for ARIN, and not a  
policy matter.

-- 
Jo Rhett
senior geek

Silicon Valley Colocation
Support Phone: 408-400-0550






From jrhett at svcolo.com  Mon Mar  2 17:45:42 2009
From: jrhett at svcolo.com (Jo Rhett)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:45:42 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
In-Reply-To: <004401c9990c$a1ba05b0$e52e1110$@com>
References: <A6C0AD43-733C-484A-98C1-D19AB6A52497@svcolo.com>
	<D6955BB0D975407BB6629BA0B30AFC8C@tedsdesk>
	<004401c9990c$a1ba05b0$e52e1110$@com>
Message-ID: <BA7129FF-71DC-44D2-8903-5BD115E8B3EC@svcolo.com>

On Feb 27, 2009, at 10:53 AM, Olivier Contant wrote:
> What about discarding this discussion which lead nowhere. If you  
> want to
> complaint about the legitimate of this email, what about going to  
> the next
> ARIN meeting and discuss about it with the right people. How many of  
> you
> will attend the meeting? My point is: arguing about an email sent is
> pointless and of no importance compare of the real role of ARIN.  
> Focusing on
> such small issue will make ARIN unable to go anywhere. I speak about  
> the
> meeting because I feel people would not argue about this in a meeting
> because they would feel it is of no importance compare to other topic.

I will absolutely address it at the next ARIN meeting I am able to  
attend.  But since that will be greater than 1 year from now, bringing  
this up on the mailing list is how things get changed in a timely  
manner.

> For now on, your discussion is flooding a great number of mailbox  
> and were
> much more annoying than the simple ARIN email "whatever how useful  
> it was".
> Remind yourself that you are sending to a mailing list and that  
> means you
> are sending to everyone.

Yes.  I am sending an ARIN operational matter for discussion to the  
ARIN discuss mailing list.  I am not mailing it to abuse contacts, or  
NOC role acounts, or anything else.  My letter is topical to the  
mailing list, and specifically appropriate content for this mailing  
list.

> Without willing to be rude and sorry if I were, I would like to  
> suggest to
> discuss about a way to help people rather than arguing if ARIN were  
> right or
> not to send this email.


The matter of whether ARIN acted appropriately in this operation is  
not for 1-2 people to discuss.  This is a matter for the ARIN  
community to discuss and upon which to advise ARIN operations staff.

-- 
Jo Rhett
senior geek

Silicon Valley Colocation
Support Phone: 408-400-0550






From tedm at ipinc.net  Mon Mar  2 17:45:58 2009
From: tedm at ipinc.net (Ted Mittelstaedt)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:45:58 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
In-Reply-To: <DE229826F48ABD4CBF754E5AA6CFC14B1DDA0F7FB6@WP40044.corp.ads>
References: <602ACF092EFFB044931BD8746C19AD2F014E510D@gbcwswiem006.ad.plc.cwintra.com><49A7C9FD.9050905@staff.openaccess.org><49A8138E.6020009@verizonbusiness.com><B6F2E84A-8E1A-4926-A2EE-4C9AE13D5B8A@svcolo.com>
	<DE229826F48ABD4CBF754E5AA6CFC14B1DDA0F7FB6@WP40044.corp.ads>
Message-ID: <6B644054DB7B4BCEB64EA31F75D02A6A@tedsdesk>


Parkinson's Law of Triviality

Ted 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net 
> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Matthew Wilder
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:35 PM
> To: Jo Rhett
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
> 
> Speaking of SPAM, I've been getting a lot of emails from one 
> Jo Rhett.  What's up with that?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net 
> [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Jo Rhett
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:32 PM
> To: Heather Schiller
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
> 
> On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Heather Schiller wrote:
> > I think what ARIN is trying to say is, we don't have control over 
> > those networks, you have to work with the folks directly.  Remember 
> > that ARIN makes no guarantee about the routability of a 
> netblock, and 
> > can't force
> 
> I don't have a problem with this statement on its face.  I 
> never expected ARIN to be responsible for this.
> 
> I have a problem with receiving a message to every single POC contact
> *EXCEPT* the administrative POC that ARIN is *SUPPOSED* to 
> use for communications about our account, saying "no news 
> here, just move along".
> 
> This message did not need to be sent.  If a message did need 
> to be sent, provide some useful content.  AND send the 
> message to the appropriate POC contact.  Not the NOC role 
> account, not the Abuse role account, etc.
> 
> --
> Jo Rhett
> senior geek
> 
> Silicon Valley Colocation
> Support Phone: 408-400-0550
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to 
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to 
> the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> 



From jrhett at svcolo.com  Mon Mar  2 17:51:34 2009
From: jrhett at svcolo.com (Jo Rhett)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:51:34 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
In-Reply-To: <DE229826F48ABD4CBF754E5AA6CFC14B1DDA0F7FB6@WP40044.corp.ads>
References: <602ACF092EFFB044931BD8746C19AD2F014E510D@gbcwswiem006.ad.plc.cwintra.com>
	<49A7C9FD.9050905@staff.openaccess.org>
	<49A8138E.6020009@verizonbusiness.com>
	<B6F2E84A-8E1A-4926-A2EE-4C9AE13D5B8A@svcolo.com>
	<DE229826F48ABD4CBF754E5AA6CFC14B1DDA0F7FB6@WP40044.corp.ads>
Message-ID: <980FD4C9-C2E7-472A-81C1-D6F1BF5C909C@svcolo.com>

You're on a mailing list intended to discuss ARIN operational  
matters.  There's another one for ARIN policy matters.  You'll see  
posts from me on both.  My posts are always relevant content to the  
mailing list in question.  This thread relates to an operational  
matter for ARIN, and is therefore relevant to this mailing list.

Please constrain your posts to discussing the matter in question, or  
(in another thread) a different ARIN operational matter.

On Mar 2, 2009, at 2:35 PM, Matthew Wilder wrote:
> Speaking of SPAM, I've been getting a lot of emails from one Jo  
> Rhett.  What's up with that?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net 
> ] On Behalf Of Jo Rhett
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:32 PM
> To: Heather Schiller
> Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
>
> On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Heather Schiller wrote:
>> I think what ARIN is trying to say is, we don't have control over
>> those networks, you have to work with the folks directly.  Remember
>> that ARIN makes no guarantee about the routability of a netblock, and
>> can't force
>
> I don't have a problem with this statement on its face.  I never  
> expected ARIN to be responsible for this.
>
> I have a problem with receiving a message to every single POC contact
> *EXCEPT* the administrative POC that ARIN is *SUPPOSED* to use for  
> communications about our account, saying "no news here, just move  
> along".
>
> This message did not need to be sent.  If a message did need to be  
> sent, provide some useful content.  AND send the message to the  
> appropriate POC contact.  Not the NOC role account, not the Abuse  
> role account, etc.
>
> --
> Jo Rhett
> senior geek
>
> Silicon Valley Colocation
> Support Phone: 408-400-0550
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Discuss
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the  
> ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

-- 
Jo Rhett
senior geek

Silicon Valley Colocation
Support Phone: 408-400-0550






From Marques.Johnson at LTSCompany.com  Mon Mar  2 17:34:50 2009
From: Marques.Johnson at LTSCompany.com (Marques Johnson)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:34:50 -0800
Subject: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?
In-Reply-To: <B6F2E84A-8E1A-4926-A2EE-4C9AE13D5B8A@svcolo.com>
References: <602ACF092EFFB044931BD8746C19AD2F014E510D@gbcwswiem006.ad.plc.cwintra.com><49A7C9FD.9050905@staff.openaccess.org><49A8138E.6020009@verizonbusiness.com>
	<B6F2E84A-8E1A-4926-A2EE-4C9AE13D5B8A@svcolo.com>
Message-ID: <E87B27FC5B173848AC57E6538AC5183EAA78B3@701-0132.ledcor.net>

You know what doesn't need to be sent?
Replies to this message. It was sent and it's over. Your constant
replies keep this going. I am blocking this email for awhile its getting
old.


-----Original Message-----
From: arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net
[mailto:arin-discuss-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Jo Rhett
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:32 PM
To: Heather Schiller
Cc: arin-discuss at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-discuss] ARIN spammed us with "talk to the hand" ?

On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Heather Schiller wrote:
> I think what ARIN is trying to say is, we don't have control over  
> those
> networks, you have to work with the folks directly.  Remember that  
> ARIN
> makes no guarantee about the routability of a netblock, and can't  
> force

I don't have a problem with this statement on its face.  I never  
expected ARIN to be responsible for this.

I have a problem with receiving a message to every single POC contact  
*EXCEPT* the administrative POC that ARIN is *SUPPOSED* to use for  
communications about our account, saying "no news here, just move  
along".

This message did not need to be sent.  If a message did need to be  
sent, provide some useful content.  AND send the message to the  
appropriate POC contact.  Not the NOC role account, not the Abuse role  
account, etc.

-- 
Jo Rhett
senior geek

Silicon Valley Colocation
Support Phone: 408-400-0550




_______________________________________________
ARIN-Discuss
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
the ARIN Discussion Mailing List (ARIN-discuss at arin.net).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-discuss
Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date:
03/01/09 17:46:00


From vixie at isc.org  Mon Mar  2 18:10:02 2009
From: vixie at isc.org (Paul Vixie)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:10:02 +0000
Subject: [arin-discuss] policy versus operations FAQ
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:40:51 PST."
	<3264ABB2-0FA4-4DA5-B0AE-C8F4F160072F@svcolo.com> 
References: <A6C0AD43-733C-484A-98C1-D19AB6A52497@svcolo.com>
	<D6955BB0D975407BB6629BA0B30AFC8C@tedsdesk>
	<3264ABB2-0FA4-4DA5-B0AE-C8F4F160072F@svcolo.com> 
Message-ID: <6293.1236035402@nsa.vix.com>

> That makes my complaint an operational matter for ARIN, and not a  
> policy matter.

have you followed the procedure outlined at

	https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/index.html

(noting that ARIN's members would not be well served by a system where
the last or loudest person to gripe about something got to set a define
operational practice, there still had to be a way for suggestions to be
made, evaluated, and potentially acted on, with transparency throughout.)


From steve at ibctech.ca  Tue Mar 17 10:27:52 2009
From: steve at ibctech.ca (Steve Bertrand)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:27:52 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] IPv6 and ARIN route registry
Message-ID: <49BFB368.2000504@ibctech.ca>

Hi everyone,

I've been scouring the web attempting to find out whether the ARIN IRR
supports IPv6 objects and am not getting very far.

Is it possible to create v6 routing policy using the ARIN IRR?

Regards,

Steve


From rs at seastrom.com  Tue Mar 17 11:36:33 2009
From: rs at seastrom.com (Robert E. Seastrom)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:36:33 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] IPv6 and ARIN route registry
In-Reply-To: <49BFB368.2000504@ibctech.ca> (Steve Bertrand's message of "Tue,
	17 Mar 2009 10:27:52 -0400")
References: <49BFB368.2000504@ibctech.ca>
Message-ID: <86fxhcjh4u.fsf@seastrom.com>


Steve Bertrand <steve at ibctech.ca> writes:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been scouring the web attempting to find out whether the ARIN IRR
> supports IPv6 objects and am not getting very far.
>
> Is it possible to create v6 routing policy using the ARIN IRR?

A fair question given that there are no route6 objects in arin.db.

Got a maintainer object in the arin component?  Why not try creating
one?  Format is mostly the same as a route object.  See here for more
details:
http://www.apnic.net/db/ref/attributes/attributes-route6.html#mandatory

I don't have an arin maintainer object or I would try this myself.  I
use altdb, which has over 3x as many route6 objects as radb does, and
approaching as many as apnic.

Maybe you'll be the first in the arin component!

-r




From steve at ibctech.ca  Tue Mar 17 11:44:35 2009
From: steve at ibctech.ca (Steve Bertrand)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:44:35 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] IPv6 and ARIN route registry
In-Reply-To: <86fxhcjh4u.fsf@seastrom.com>
References: <49BFB368.2000504@ibctech.ca> <86fxhcjh4u.fsf@seastrom.com>
Message-ID: <49BFC563.6050104@ibctech.ca>

Robert E. Seastrom wrote:
> Steve Bertrand <steve at ibctech.ca> writes:
> 
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I've been scouring the web attempting to find out whether the ARIN IRR
>> supports IPv6 objects and am not getting very far.
>>
>> Is it possible to create v6 routing policy using the ARIN IRR?
> 
> A fair question given that there are no route6 objects in arin.db.
> 
> Got a maintainer object in the arin component?  Why not try creating
> one?  Format is mostly the same as a route object.  See here for more
> details:
> http://www.apnic.net/db/ref/attributes/attributes-route6.html#mandatory
> 
> I don't have an arin maintainer object or I would try this myself.  I
> use altdb, which has over 3x as many route6 objects as radb does, and
> approaching as many as apnic.
> 
> Maybe you'll be the first in the arin component!

Unfortunately, not quite:

Part of your update FAILED

For help see <http://www.arin.net/> or
include 'help' in the subject line of your message

Objects without errors have been processed.

Update FAILED: [unknown object]

source:        ARIN
origin:        AS14270
descr:         eagle.ca Internet Services
descr:         26 Chapel St.
descr:         Cobourg, Ontario K9A4K5
descr:         Canada
route6: 2607:f118::/32
mnt-by:        MNT-EAGLE-28
*ERROR*:       unknown object type

Thanks for the feedback though ;) I also tried using a standard route
object, but it failed as expected also.

Steve


From rs at seastrom.com  Wed Mar 18 08:15:48 2009
From: rs at seastrom.com (Robert E. Seastrom)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:15:48 -0400
Subject: [arin-discuss] IPv6 and ARIN route registry
In-Reply-To: <49BFC563.6050104@ibctech.ca> (Steve Bertrand's message of "Tue,
	17 Mar 2009 11:44:35 -0400")
References: <49BFB368.2000504@ibctech.ca> <86fxhcjh4u.fsf@seastrom.com>
	<49BFC563.6050104@ibctech.ca>
Message-ID: <86sklbhvrf.fsf@seastrom.com>


Steve Bertrand <steve at ibctech.ca> writes:

> Update FAILED: [unknown object]
> ...
> route6: 2607:f118::/32
> mnt-by:        MNT-EAGLE-28
> *ERROR*:       unknown object type

Well, that's just fascinating.  It was suggested privately by one
person that we ought to be using an inet6num instead of a route6.
Clearly that's in error, though, since the union of all irr components
mirrored at ftp://ftp.radb.net/radb/dbase/ yields a grand total of
four inet6num objects, as opposed to 476 route6es.

Supposedly IPv6 objects in the ARIN database are now supported, as of
2006.  http://osdir.com/ml/operators.ipv6/2006-06/msg00073.html

On a related note, I see no aut-num objects with 32-bit ASNs in them,
unless I'm doing something wrong.  APNIC has some in ASDOT format.

Is it perhaps time to shake the dust off the ARIN IRR codebase?

-r