From Jill.Kulpinski at exodus.net Wed Sep 4 17:09:18 2002 From: Jill.Kulpinski at exodus.net (Jill Kulpinski) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 14:09:18 -0700 Subject: FW: Being blacklisted by Spews Message-ID: > Hello, > What do other ISPs in the community do if they have Customers who get the ISPs address space blacklisted by spews? > > Thanks very much, > Jill Kulpinski > > From ipadmin at eli.net Wed Sep 4 19:01:27 2002 From: ipadmin at eli.net (ipadmin at eli.net) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FW: Being blacklisted by Spews In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jill- the method of dealing with it varies widely. 1. If IP's are getting blacklisted because a customer of ours is spamming, then we work to stop the customer from spamming. However, if they dont stop spamming we then disconnect that customer. We then spend alot of time working with the sites that have those IP's blacklisted to get them unlisted again since we have disco'd that customer. 2. If you have customers unappropriately blacklisted like spews.org does ALOT...then you can either start to null route spews.org or find some miracle that gets you contact info to spews.org and work with them to take the incorrect IP's off the list. ELI IP Analyst On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Jill Kulpinski wrote: > > > > Hello, > > What do other ISPs in the community do if they have Customers who get the ISPs address space blacklisted by spews? > > > > Thanks very much, > > Jill Kulpinski > > > > > From Jill.Kulpinski at exodus.net Wed Sep 4 20:21:16 2002 From: Jill.Kulpinski at exodus.net (Jill Kulpinski) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:21:16 -0700 Subject: Being blacklisted by Spews Message-ID: Hello Hansel and all, Thanks for your comment and just to clarify, I am not speaking with regards to Exodus or any specific ISP. This is a general question that I wanted to raise to the community for feedback. It is interesting because a lot of the feedback is saying that the ISP would just disconnect the Customer. What if the Customer was sending a lot of mail from an address because they provided newsletter distribution services? Jill -----Original Message----- From: Hansel E. Lee Jr. Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 2:30 PM To: Jill Kulpinski Subject: RE: Being blacklisted by Spews Terminate customers who violate our AUP. We terminate customers on the first SPAM complaint and have never had any IP address/block ever listed in SPEWS or any other blacklist. Once you terminate the Spammers you'll over time fall off the blacklists. Note that Exodus is listed quite frequently in: news.admin.net-abuse.email which is often how folks get into SPEWS. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&newwindow=1&q=ex odus&btnG=Google+Search&meta=group%3Dnews.admin.net-abuse.email Would be nice if Exodus started to crack down on spammers. It is a bad business practice to host them and ultimately will drive away your legitimate customers. Hansel E. Lee Jr. -----Original Message----- From: owner-ppml at arin.net [mailto:owner-ppml at arin.net] On Behalf Of Jill Kulpinski Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 3:07 PM To: ppml at arin.net Subject: Being blacklisted by Spews Hello, What do other ISPs in the community do if they have Customers who get the ISPs address space blacklisted by spews? Thanks very much, Jill Kulpinski From paul at vix.com Wed Sep 4 20:39:04 2002 From: paul at vix.com (Paul Vixie) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 00:39:04 +0000 Subject: Being blacklisted by Spews In-Reply-To: Message from "Jill Kulpinski" of "Wed, 04 Sep 2002 17:21:16 MST." Message-ID: <20020905003904.84B4228B6F@as.vix.com> spews is small time. you can save time by just telling them to list all your customers. they'll list your whole /13 if you ask them. From blumenthal at genuity.com Wed Sep 4 20:16:24 2002 From: blumenthal at genuity.com (Steve Blumenthal) Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 20:16:24 -0400 Subject: Being blacklisted by Spews In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020904201129.03441560@po2.genuity.com> Jill, We (at Genuity) would only disconnect a customer if they continued to violate our acceptable use policy after being given a warning to shape up and comply. If they were sending a lot of email to subscribers of a newsletter who had signed up to receive it, that would be OK. Steve At 05:21 PM 09/04/2002 -0700, Jill Kulpinski wrote: >Hello Hansel and all, >Thanks for your comment and just to clarify, I am not speaking with >regards to Exodus or any specific ISP. This is a general question that I >wanted to raise to the community for feedback. >It is interesting because a lot of the feedback is saying that the ISP >would just disconnect the Customer. What if the Customer was sending a >lot of mail from an address because they provided newsletter distribution >services? > >Jill > >-----Original Message----- >From: Hansel E. Lee Jr. Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 2:30 PM >To: Jill Kulpinski >Subject: RE: Being blacklisted by Spews > > >Terminate customers who violate our AUP. We terminate customers on the >first SPAM complaint and have never had any IP address/block ever listed >in SPEWS or any other blacklist. Once you terminate the Spammers >you'll over time fall off the blacklists. > >Note that Exodus is listed quite frequently in: >news.admin.net-abuse.email which is often how folks get into SPEWS. > >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&newwindow=1&q=ex >odus&btnG=Google+Search&meta=group%3Dnews.admin.net-abuse.email > >Would be nice if Exodus started to crack down on spammers. It is a bad >business practice to host them and ultimately will drive away your >legitimate customers. > >Hansel E. Lee Jr. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ppml at arin.net [mailto:owner-ppml at arin.net] On Behalf Of Jill >Kulpinski >Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 3:07 PM >To: ppml at arin.net >Subject: Being blacklisted by Spews > > >Hello, >What do other ISPs in the community do if they have Customers who get >the ISPs address space blacklisted by spews? > >Thanks very much, >Jill Kulpinski From paul at vix.com Thu Sep 5 10:24:46 2002 From: paul at vix.com (Paul Vixie) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 14:24:46 +0000 Subject: Being blacklisted by Spews In-Reply-To: Message from Cindy Soulia of "Thu, 05 Sep 2002 08:25:03 -0400." <5.0.2.1.2.20020905082002.046a5140@po3.genuity.com> Message-ID: <20020905142446.EE73F28B6F@as.vix.com> > >spews is small time. you can save time by just telling them to list all > >your customers. they'll list your whole /13 if you ask them. > > SPEWS is a problem. They have blacklisted address blocks for a larger > aggregate than what the offending customer has. This impacts other > customers on that aggregate. Their response to fixing these types of > problems has been poor. When the offending customer does leave, you can't > reallocate their block because it is still blacklisted by SPEWS. Unless > you have address space to spare, having them blacklist one of your blocks > can create problems for the ISP and customers within those blocks. i'm sorry, i underspoke. you can save time by giving spews a list of all of your address space and telling them you want it all listed. they are fools, and their subscribers are worse, and the sooner they list 0.0.0.0/0 the better off we will all be. there is no reasoning with them, as you've discovered. that means the end state is clear, it's just the schedule we don't yet know. might as well hasten the end. i certainly don't think any of us should dignify their work by trying to get anything removed from the list. they are small time. forget them, or ridicule them, but in no sense or case take them at all seriously.