[ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
John Curran
jcurran at arin.net
Mon May 10 15:36:59 EDT 2021
Correct - ASN maintenance fees are not affected by the proposed fee change and not the subject of this consultation.
Thanks,
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
American Registry for Internet Numbers
> On 10 May 2021, at 3:17 PM, Citizen Support ARIN Support <ARIN at citizen.bz> wrote:
>
> ARIN is a registrar that handles ASN and IP addresses. If ARIN
> issued you one of these or both of these things they did give service.
> Change of contact info while required and should be up to date is
> not a denial of service to you. This looks like a person who has
> become disgruntled and trying to take this topic off topic from the
> task at hand.
>
> This thread is to talk about the possible future changes to fees which
> in general lower smaller users fee structure. Yes there is a few
> caveats on this but it has nothing to do with the current question of
> how fees are handled.
>
>
> This is an example that I have made for this example based on the fees
> of AS Number only.
> 150/yr
>
> 1u Server hosting in data centers with 1 internet connection using
> Centos 7 and ARINs BGP settings
> 200/month for a 100/mb circuit and 1 U
> 50-200/hr Labor (Can be anything from them helping you to a restart of
> the server due to iLO failure)
>
> now they have to have this in a High Availability Setup in 2+ data centers
>
> and you are complaining for a $12.50 a month fee? If you have a
> problem with your account or your contact info contact ARIN in their
> support paths please do not troll here.
>
> Use of this database, support, and anything else ARIN offers or not
> does not mean you do or do not have to pay them the ASN and IP blocks
> are Leased to you can you lease these forever yes but they are lessed
> not owned.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <arin-consult-request at arin.net>
> Date: Mon, May 10, 2021 at 2:38 PM
> Subject: ARIN-consult Digest, Vol 81, Issue 6
> To: <arin-consult at arin.net>
>
>
> Send ARIN-consult mailing list submissions to
> arin-consult at arin.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> arin-consult-request at arin.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> arin-consult-owner at arin.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-consult digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: What do the ASN fees go to? (Steve Noble)
> 2. Re: What do the ASN fees go to? (Adam Thompson)
> 3. Re: What do the ASN fees go to? (Steve Noble)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 10:43:05 -0700
> From: Steve Noble <snoble at sonn.com>
> To: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>
> Cc: "<arin-consult at arin.net>" <arin-consult at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
> Message-ID: <aedc1296-95b7-4ef9-1492-ef2e3a3cd2a8 at sonn.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
>
>
> John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:
>>
>> Steve -
>>
>> As noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for all
>> of the resources in the registry ? and these services are provided
>> even for number resources that have no requests pending or when
>> there are requests pending to change information but that lack
>> proper documentation.
>>
>> The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee
>> change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for
>> ASN?s (although it will make them go away for many end-user
>> customers with IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration to the
>> Registration Services Plan with ASN registry services already
>> included :-)
>>
>
> Hi John,
>
> Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you will receive service,
> it seems clear that the fees should be based on usage, not on
> resources.? If ARIN does not provide the services, then the fee should
> be reduced or removed.
>
> --
> Thank you,
> Steven
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-consult/attachments/20210510/33e901f5/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 13:01:56 -0500
> From: Adam Thompson <athompso at athompso.net>
> To: Steve Noble <snoble at sonn.com>
> Cc: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>, <arin-consult at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
> Message-ID: <cdfe3082d7dd5a06c9f02802550fc848 at athompso.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Steven, that feels like a deliberate mis-characterization to me.
>
> You're right, you are not guaranteed to receive service, in much the
> same way you are not guaranteed to receive a payout from your car
> insurance if you don't have an accident. Or that you aren't guaranteed
> to watch CBS content even though it's included in your cable bundle:
> you're paying for (among other things) the right to access it on demand.
>
>
> As far as I know, however, paying your fee _does_ guarantee that ARIN
> services will be available to you if and/or when you need or want it.
>
> We pay for many, many things where we do not always take full advantage
> of the service we're paying for, because the provider has fixed costs
> regardless. Your local cableco charges a fixed amount for packages,
> regardless of which channels in that package you watch. When you stay
> in a hotel, you pay the same fee regardless of whether you spend 10
> minutes in the room, or 16 hours. Both examples, like ARIN, are where
> there are fixed costs to providing you *any service at all*, so the
> consumer is expected to defray those. (Insurance isn't so much a
> fixed-cost example, rather it's a "mutual" or "pool", but it works out
> much the same in the end.)
>
> I don't see how this is substantially different from any other provider
> with fixed costs - we shoulder their entire cost, we don't get to pick
> and choose. Where we do get to, the overhead is then baked into each
> and every price, and each and every one of us gets a raw deal. I
> shudder to think what per-second hotel billing would look like.
>
> -Adam Thompson
> athompso at athompso.net
>
> On 2021-05-10 12:43, Steve Noble wrote:
>
>> John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:
>>
>> Steve -
>>
>> As noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for all of the resources in the registry - and these services are provided even for number resources that have no requests pending or when there are requests pending to change information but that lack proper documentation.
>>
>> The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for ASN's (although it will make them go away for many end-user customers with IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration to the Registration Services Plan with ASN registry services already included :-)
>
> Hi John,
>
> Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you will receive service,
> it seems clear that the fees should be based on usage, not on resources.
> If ARIN does not provide the services, then the fee should be reduced
> or removed.
>
> --
> Thank you,
> Steven
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
> ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-consult/attachments/20210510/112b3cc9/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 11:38:46 -0700
> From: Steve Noble <snoble at sonn.com>
> To: Adam Thompson <athompso at athompso.net>
> Cc: John Curran <jcurran at arin.net>, arin-consult at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] What do the ASN fees go to?
> Message-ID: <a4853b03-4939-22ab-75c1-0de57b6b7c4d at sonn.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi Adam,
>
> You make my point exactly, I will follow up in-line.
>
> Adam Thompson wrote on 5/10/21 11:01 AM:
>>
>> Steven, that feels like a deliberate mis-characterization to me.
>>
> It is not, but you may not have history about how I was refused service
> by ARIN for multiple years.
>>
>> You're right, you are not guaranteed to receive service, in much the
>> same way you are not guaranteed to receive a payout from your car
>> insurance if you don't have an accident.? Or that you aren't
>> guaranteed to watch CBS content even though it's included in your
>> cable bundle: you're paying for (among other things) the right to
>> access it on demand.
>>
>> As far as I know, however, paying your fee /does/?guarantee?that ARIN
>> services will be available to you if and/or when you need or want it.
>>
> That is incorrect, John can confirm that I was not allowed to use any
> services from ARIN for my ASN for a few years due to an issue with their
> database.? I was still required to pay the fee but I was not given
> access to the services i.e. I couldn't even update the mailing address,
> which I believe you are required to keep updated.
>>
>> We pay for many, many things where we do not always take full
>> advantage of the service we're paying for, because the provider has
>> fixed costs regardless.? Your local cableco charges a fixed amount for
>> packages, regardless of which channels in that package you watch.?
>> When you stay in a hotel, you pay the same fee regardless of whether
>> you spend 10 minutes in the room, or 16?hours.? Both examples, like
>> ARIN, are where there are fixed costs to providing you *any service at
>> all*, so the consumer is expected to defray those.? (Insurance isn't
>> so much a fixed-cost example, rather it's a "mutual" or "pool", but it
>> works out much the same in the end.)
>>
> If my cable company did not provide service to me for a year, I would
> expect that I would get that money back, so to your point, I should
> expect ARIN to pay me back for the time that they refused to provide
> services?? Since ARIN does not guarantee that the objects are usable, we
> are not paying for that, we are paying for services.
>>
>> I don't see how this is substantially different from any other
>> provider with fixed costs - we shoulder their entire cost, we don't
>> get to pick and choose.? Where we do get to, the overhead is then
>> baked into each and every price, and each and every one of us gets a
>> raw deal.? I shudder to think what per-second hotel billing would look
>> like.
>>
> It isn't and hence ARIN like all of the above named entities would be
> required to compensate any individual/organization that was denied service.
>>
>> -Adam Thompson
>> ?athompso at athompso.net
>>
>>
>> On 2021-05-10 12:43, Steve Noble wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Curran wrote on 5/10/21 9:47 AM:
>>>
>>> Steve -
>>>
>>> As noted earlier, ARIN provides many operational services for
>>> all of the resources in the registry ? and these services are
>>> provided even for number resources that have no requests
>>> pending or when there are requests pending to change
>>> information but that lack proper documentation.
>>> The consultation that is now underway is with regard to a fee
>>> change proposal that does not change the maintenance fees for
>>> ASN's (although it will make them go away for many end-user
>>> customers with IPv4 or IPv6 holdings due to their migration
>>> to the Registration Services Plan with ASN registry services
>>> already included :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> Since paying the fees does not guarantee that you will receive
>>> service, it seems clear that the fees should be based on usage, not
>>> on resources.? If ARIN does not provide the services, then the fee
>>> should be reduced or removed.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thank you,
>>> Steven
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-Consult
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
>>> Consult Mailing
>>> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net <mailto:ARIN-consult at arin.net>).
>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact
>>> the ARIN Member Services
>>> Help Desk at info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you experience
>>> any issues.
>>
>>
>
> --
> Thank you,
> Steven
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-consult/attachments/20210510/acef8273/attachment.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-consult mailing list
> ARIN-consult at arin.net
> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ARIN-consult Digest, Vol 81, Issue 6
> *******************************************
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
More information about the ARIN-consult
mailing list