From info at arin.net  Thu Jun  1 11:22:03 2017
From: info at arin.net (ARIN)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 11:22:03 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the
 ARIN Board of Trustees
Message-ID: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>

As announced on 11 May 2017, after receiving community feedback during
the ARIN 37 meeting in Jamaica regarding the need for more background
diversity on the ARIN Board of Trustees, the ARIN Bylaws were changed to
allow for the appointment of an eighth voting Board member for a 1-year
term, and this option was used after the 2016 ARIN Election.

At their meeting on 8 May 2017, the ARIN Board discussed and agreed to
propose for community consultation an additional change to expand the
number of elected Board members from six to nine, as this will increase
opportunities for diversity in the background of Board members. While
this change would require an update to the Bylaws, the update would not
affect the member-protected portion of the Bylaws.   However, the ARIN
Board of Trustees determined it would be best to consult with the
community for their input prior to the adoption of this proposed change
of expanding the Board.

We are conducting this community consultation to obtain feedback on this
proposed change to the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees. This
consultation period will close at 5 PM EDT, 12 June 2017.

Board proposal:

ARIN will add three more elected voting seats to the Board of Trustees,
raising the current six (elected two per year) to nine (elected three
per year).

* There would be no change to the appointed voting seat (it would remain
available for appointment as deemed desirable by the Board)
* There would be no change to the non-elected voting seat (held by the
President/CEO)
* New Board seats are to be added to the Board in a phased manner ? one
per year in the 2017 thru 2019 elections
          *  October 2017: 3 Board members will be elected for 2018;
          8 Trustee board (9 if appointed seat is used)
          *  October 2018: 3 Board members will be elected for 2019;
          Trustee board (10 if appointed seat is used)
          *  October 2019: 3 Board members will be elected for 2020;
          10 Trustee board (11 if appointed seat is used)

Please provide comments to arin-consult at arin.net.

Please contact us at info at arin.net if you have any questions.

Regards,

John Curran
President & CEO
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)





From jschiller at google.com  Thu Jun  1 13:43:26 2017
From: jschiller at google.com (Jason Schiller)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 13:43:26 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
Message-ID: <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>

I would support adding additional seats for the purpose of increasing
diversity if
such seats had some sore of restriction...

For example each of the three new seats will be scoped as follows:
1 seat will only have nominations from Caribbean region community.
1 seat will only have nominations from individuals identifying as a women
1 seat will be designated as a "new comer" and will only have nominations
that have never served on the ARIN Board.

This proposal lacks any such restriction.

___Jason


On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 11:22 AM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:

> As announced on 11 May 2017, after receiving community feedback during
> the ARIN 37 meeting in Jamaica regarding the need for more background
> diversity on the ARIN Board of Trustees, the ARIN Bylaws were changed to
> allow for the appointment of an eighth voting Board member for a 1-year
> term, and this option was used after the 2016 ARIN Election.
>
> At their meeting on 8 May 2017, the ARIN Board discussed and agreed to
> propose for community consultation an additional change to expand the
> number of elected Board members from six to nine, as this will increase
> opportunities for diversity in the background of Board members. While
> this change would require an update to the Bylaws, the update would not
> affect the member-protected portion of the Bylaws.   However, the ARIN
> Board of Trustees determined it would be best to consult with the
> community for their input prior to the adoption of this proposed change
> of expanding the Board.
>
> We are conducting this community consultation to obtain feedback on this
> proposed change to the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees. This
> consultation period will close at 5 PM EDT, 12 June 2017.
>
> Board proposal:
>
> ARIN will add three more elected voting seats to the Board of Trustees,
> raising the current six (elected two per year) to nine (elected three
> per year).
>
> * There would be no change to the appointed voting seat (it would remain
> available for appointment as deemed desirable by the Board)
> * There would be no change to the non-elected voting seat (held by the
> President/CEO)
> * New Board seats are to be added to the Board in a phased manner ? one
> per year in the 2017 thru 2019 elections
>          *  October 2017: 3 Board members will be elected for 2018;
>          8 Trustee board (9 if appointed seat is used)
>          *  October 2018: 3 Board members will be elected for 2019;
>          Trustee board (10 if appointed seat is used)
>          *  October 2019: 3 Board members will be elected for 2020;
>          10 Trustee board (11 if appointed seat is used)
>
> Please provide comments to arin-consult at arin.net.
>
> Please contact us at info at arin.net if you have any questions.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Curran
> President & CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
> ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.




-- 
_______________________________________________________
Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com|571-266-0006
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From rs at seastrom.com  Thu Jun  1 18:49:05 2017
From: rs at seastrom.com (Rob Seastrom)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 18:49:05 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>


> On Jun 1, 2017, at 1:43 PM, Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com> wrote:
> 
> I would support adding additional seats for the purpose of increasing diversity if
> such seats had some sore of restriction... 
> 
> For example each of the three new seats will be scoped as follows:
> 1 seat will only have nominations from Caribbean region community.
> 1 seat will only have nominations from individuals identifying as a women 
> 1 seat will be designated as a "new comer" and will only have nominations that have never served on the ARIN Board.
> 
> This proposal lacks any such restriction.

Mostly agree with Jason here.  If the Board believes that increasing the number of seats is *necessary* in order to increase diversity then I am in favor of it, but only in conjunction with specific measures taken to have qualified candidates stand for election and be subsequently voted in.  I can't in good conscience support a simple expansion of the count of people on the board in the hope that it will cause good candidates for those positions to magically appear; it will not.

The expansion of the Fellowship Program was a commendable first step.  What else can we do to encourage participation in the process by members of historically underrepresented groups?  I believe we have a larger problem than the (highly visible) make-up of the Board.  Hopefully any solution that helps with Board composition will also cast a long shadow over the entire process and result in greater diversity throughout.

I am neither in favor of nor opposed to the restrictions/carve-outs that Jason suggests, but will observe that they may be one effective tool among many that the Board or NomCom may bring to bear.

One note though on the specifics of reserving seats - a "newcomer" seat could be compelling, particularly in the interests of reducing "clubbiness" but the devil is in the details.  A naive implementation would result in a situation wherein a good candidate who had been elected and faithfully served a term would be ineligible to stand for re-election.  Moreover, a credible "newcomers only" carve-out would have to disqualify previous and current and former AC members, previous and current ASO AC members, previous ARIN employees, and perhaps others.

In conclusion, I support increasing diversity but not half-efforts; on the specific issue of board size increase, if it happens it needs to be a larger part of a coordinated effort to ensure that the seats do not merely get filled with existing well-qualified-but-not-adding-any-diversity members of the community.

-r




From woody at pch.net  Thu Jun  1 18:54:50 2017
From: woody at pch.net (Bill Woodcock)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:54:50 +0300
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
Message-ID: <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>


> On Jun 2, 2017, at 1:49 AM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com> wrote:
> If the Board believes that increasing the number of seats is *necessary* in order to increase diversity?

There is certainly no consensus that that?s the case.

> The expansion of the Fellowship Program was a commendable first step.  What else can we do to encourage participation in the process by members of historically underrepresented groups?

I agree that that?s the most important thing we can do.

> I am neither in favor of nor opposed to the restrictions/carve-outs that Jason suggests, but will observe that they may be one effective tool among many that the Board or NomCom may bring to bear.

Yes.  But as I?ve explained before, regional representation is done by categorizing _voters_, not _candidates_.

                                -Bill




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From woody at pch.net  Thu Jun  1 20:00:25 2017
From: woody at pch.net (Bill Woodcock)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 03:00:25 +0300
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
Message-ID: <608D3BAC-C9F0-43A2-B817-326082145EE9@pch.net>


> On Jun 2, 2017, at 1:54 AM, Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 2, 2017, at 1:49 AM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com> wrote:
>> If the Board believes that increasing the number of seats is *necessary* in order to increase diversity?
> 
> There is certainly no consensus that that?s the case.

Sorry, I?ve been corrected.  There was consensus on a call that I missed.  My apologies.

                                -Bill




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From jcurran at arin.net  Thu Jun  1 21:41:11 2017
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:41:11 +0000
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <608D3BAC-C9F0-43A2-B817-326082145EE9@pch.net>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <608D3BAC-C9F0-43A2-B817-326082145EE9@pch.net>
Message-ID: <387562F6-409A-4B09-8237-8555106EB510@arin.net>

On 1 Jun 2017, at 8:00 PM, Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net> wrote:
>> On Jun 2, 2017, at 1:54 AM, Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net> wrote:
>>> On Jun 2, 2017, at 1:49 AM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com> wrote:
>>> If the Board believes that increasing the number of seats is *necessary* in order to increase diversity?
>> 
>> There is certainly no consensus that that?s the case.
> 
> Sorry, I?ve been corrected.  There was consensus on a call that I missed.  My apologies.

For sake of clarity, the Board directed the President "to proceed with a Community Consultation
on expansion of the ARIN Board??

(Such a consensus doesn?t necessarily reflect the overall view of the Board regarding expanding
the size of the Board, only that consulting with the community at this time on this matter is indeed
desired.)

Thanks!
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN




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From jschiller at google.com  Fri Jun  2 10:39:52 2017
From: jschiller at google.com (Jason Schiller)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:39:52 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
Message-ID: <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com> wrote:
>
> I am neither in favor of nor opposed to the restrictions/carve-outs that
Jason suggests,
> but will observe that they may be one effective tool among many that the
Board or NomCom
> may bring to bear.

For the record,I am neither in favor nor opposed to the specific
restrictions/carve-outs that
I suggested.  I am strongly in favor of adding new Board seats if they have
some sort of
restrictions/carve-outs.  I gave some examples that came to mind to spur
discussion about
the general need for some specific restrictions/carve-outs and hope the
discussion will shift
to what restrictions would be desired prior to deciding to enlarge the
board.

I thank RS for pointing out that there are other ways to address diversity
such as the fellowship.
I had not considered the importance of encouraging greater diversity in
general participation,
but now see it is at least as important for sake of diversity of
participation, and probably
even more important as Bill points out.  (Also of note, it would likely
also support greater
diversity of qualified board candidates).

I strongly support efforts to increase diversity of participation.




On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 6:54 PM, Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net> wrote:

>
> > On Jun 2, 2017, at 1:49 AM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com> wrote:
>
> > I am neither in favor of nor opposed to the restrictions/carve-outs that
> Jason suggests, but will observe that they may be one effective tool among
> many that the Board or NomCom may bring to bear.
>
> Yes.  But as I?ve explained before, regional representation is done by
> categorizing _voters_, not _candidates_.
>
> One way to achieve regional representation by categorizing _voters_ is to
limit the voting
for a particular seat to a geographical segment of the membership.

Another way to achieve regional representation by categorizing _voters_ is
to limit the
selection of the candidate slate for a particular seat to a geographical
segment of the
community, and have the entire membership vote.

You can of course also categorize the candidates and only permit a certain
type of
candidate for a particular seat.

I do not have strong preference for one approach over another, and would
prefer
whichever approach provides the best mix of diversity and qualified Board
members.

As Bill points out categorizing _candidates_ may make sense in some cases
such as gender diversity.


__Jason

-- 
_______________________________________________________
Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com|571-266-0006
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From jcurran at arin.net  Fri Jun  2 11:00:46 2017
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 15:00:46 +0000
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>

On 2 Jun 2017, at 10:39 AM, Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com<mailto:jschiller at google.com>> wrote:

As Bill points out categorizing _candidates_ may make sense in some cases
such as gender diversity.

Diversity relates to the variety of experiences, history, and backgrounds
who will serve on the Board (or the AC, or any other body for that matter)

Representation is quite a different matter which provides having particular seats
that are charged with representation of a particular community.   If you really want to
have representation of a particularly community, then you have to allow said group
to vote for whomever they feel represents them best, even if they choose someone
not from the part of the region or someone who is not diverse in any way from the
rest of the body.   This is why providing for formal representation of specific parts
of the region doesn?t necessarily change the diversity of the overall body.

FYI,
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN

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From farmer at umn.edu  Tue Jun  6 14:58:51 2017
From: farmer at umn.edu (David Farmer)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 13:58:51 -0500
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
Message-ID: <CAN-Dau0=6PfPgPgiVh5Lvm5-6tstaZMJ_YWOFacS3mzzfG6F7w@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Jason and Rob, simply expanding the number of board seats
without some mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand
diversity is not helpful, and I can not support such a change.  I will note
it is theoretically possible that, the membership will fill the new Board
seats with a more diverse set of board members, but it is equally, if not
more, likely that they will not, and the board will look much as it does
today but slightly larger.  A slightly larger board that has more diversity
is a fair trade-off and I support such a change if it includes a mechanism
to ensure that the new seats actually expand diversity.

I don't think a regional representation system would be helpful over all,
it wouldn't necessarily help increasing the number of women on the board,
and it would formalize a constituency for some board members that isn't the
whole membership, and I'm not sure that would be a healthy change either.

As an alternative, I would propose that the board earmark the additional
seat in each class for candidates with particular divers properties that
are underrepresented on the board.  Currently, I see the most pressing lack
of diversity being women in general and anyone from the Caribbean.  So I
would propose that the extra seat for the 1st and 3rd class of broad
members be earmarked for women, and the extra seat in the 2nd class be
earmarked for someone from the Caribbean.  Overtime if the make up of the
board changes the earmarks could be changed to select candidates with other
divers properties or if in the future it is felt that sufficient diversity
can be maintained without earmarks, the earmarks could be eliminated.

Under this proposal, there would be two(2) general seats with the current
qualifications, and one special diversity seat per class with the current
qualifications plus additional diversity qualifications specified by the
board, maybe with input from the community and/or the nomcom.

Thanks.


-- 
===============================================
David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
===============================================
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From bjones at vt.edu  Tue Jun  6 15:14:39 2017
From: bjones at vt.edu (Brian Jones)
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 19:14:39 +0000
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAN-Dau0=6PfPgPgiVh5Lvm5-6tstaZMJ_YWOFacS3mzzfG6F7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
 <CAN-Dau0=6PfPgPgiVh5Lvm5-6tstaZMJ_YWOFacS3mzzfG6F7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANyqO+FUXxGJT=KEkNjWR3_7pXD4Rvg=vkW92yC-sfouzEgoXg@mail.gmail.com>

See inline comments.

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 2:59 PM David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:

> I agree with Jason and Rob, simply expanding the number of board seats
> without some mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand
> diversity is not helpful, and I can not support such a change.  I will note
> it is theoretically possible that, the membership will fill the new Board
> seats with a more diverse set of board members, but it is equally, if not
> more, likely that they will not, and the board will look much as it does
> today but slightly larger.  A slightly larger board that has more diversity
> is a fair trade-off and I support such a change
>

+1 There has to be something to measure against in order to realize the
goal of a more diverse board.

if it includes a mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand
> diversity.
>
>

I don't think a regional representation system would be helpful over all,
> it wouldn't necessarily help increasing the number of women on the board,
> and it would formalize a constituency for some board members that isn't the
> whole membership, and I'm not sure that would be a healthy change either.
>
> As an alternative, I would propose that the board earmark the additional
> seat in each class for candidates with particular divers properties that
> are underrepresented on the board.  Currently, I see the most pressing lack
> of diversity being women in general and anyone from the Caribbean.  So I
> would propose that the extra seat for the 1st and 3rd class of broad
> members be earmarked for women, and the extra seat in the 2nd class be
> earmarked for someone from the Caribbean.  Overtime if the make up of the
> board changes the earmarks could be changed to select candidates with other
> divers properties or if in the future it is felt that sufficient diversity
> can be maintained without earmarks, the earmarks could be eliminated.
>

The earmark idea for each additional seat seems like a good idea. I could
also agree with Dave?s suggestions of a seat earmarked for women and one
for the Caribbean, if those are the two areas the board/membership finds
most necessary to add in order to balance out diversity needs.



>
> Under this proposal, there would be two(2) general seats with the current
> qualifications, and one special diversity seat per class with the current
> qualifications plus additional diversity qualifications specified by the
> board, maybe with input from the community and/or the nomcom.
>
>
I support the three seat proposal as long as there is general consensus
among board/membership concerning what elements determines diversity
requirements for each so we can tell when those requirements are met.

?
Brian E Jones CSM, CSPO
Network Infrastructure & Services
Virginia Tech
bjones at vt.edu
540-231-3930




> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> ===============================================
> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815 <(612)%20626-0815>
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952 <(612)%20812-9952>
> ===============================================
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
> ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
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From john at comfortconsulting.com  Tue Jun  6 15:17:51 2017
From: john at comfortconsulting.com (John Comfort)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 12:17:51 -0700
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAN-Dau0=6PfPgPgiVh5Lvm5-6tstaZMJ_YWOFacS3mzzfG6F7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
 <CAN-Dau0=6PfPgPgiVh5Lvm5-6tstaZMJ_YWOFacS3mzzfG6F7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALFvOQO59U9HZ--A7tmBhOy+8Yvt4_O+EtcacEyi1cZikpqRzA@mail.gmail.com>

To state that women are underrepresented because the board currently has no
women is a misnomer and only perpetuates the political propaganda without
any substantive data to confirm the situation even exists.  If a particular
woman has the appropriate credentials and experience necessary to become a
member of the board, then there is no reason why she wouldn't be elected
except that a male or another female candidate has better credentials
and/or more relevant experience.

The election requirements should be based on merit only.  Do not give
prejudicial treatment to any person whether male or female to further
external, irrelevant agendas.






On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:58 AM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:

> I agree with Jason and Rob, simply expanding the number of board seats
> without some mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand
> diversity is not helpful, and I can not support such a change.  I will note
> it is theoretically possible that, the membership will fill the new Board
> seats with a more diverse set of board members, but it is equally, if not
> more, likely that they will not, and the board will look much as it does
> today but slightly larger.  A slightly larger board that has more diversity
> is a fair trade-off and I support such a change if it includes a mechanism
> to ensure that the new seats actually expand diversity.
>
> I don't think a regional representation system would be helpful over all,
> it wouldn't necessarily help increasing the number of women on the board,
> and it would formalize a constituency for some board members that isn't the
> whole membership, and I'm not sure that would be a healthy change either.
>
> As an alternative, I would propose that the board earmark the additional
> seat in each class for candidates with particular divers properties that
> are underrepresented on the board.  Currently, I see the most pressing lack
> of diversity being women in general and anyone from the Caribbean.  So I
> would propose that the extra seat for the 1st and 3rd class of broad
> members be earmarked for women, and the extra seat in the 2nd class be
> earmarked for someone from the Caribbean.  Overtime if the make up of the
> board changes the earmarks could be changed to select candidates with other
> divers properties or if in the future it is felt that sufficient diversity
> can be maintained without earmarks, the earmarks could be eliminated.
>
> Under this proposal, there would be two(2) general seats with the current
> qualifications, and one special diversity seat per class with the current
> qualifications plus additional diversity qualifications specified by the
> board, maybe with input from the community and/or the nomcom.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> ===============================================
> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815 <(612)%20626-0815>
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952 <(612)%20812-9952>
> ===============================================
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
> ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
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From farmer at umn.edu  Tue Jun  6 15:53:32 2017
From: farmer at umn.edu (David Farmer)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 14:53:32 -0500
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CALFvOQO59U9HZ--A7tmBhOy+8Yvt4_O+EtcacEyi1cZikpqRzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
 <CAN-Dau0=6PfPgPgiVh5Lvm5-6tstaZMJ_YWOFacS3mzzfG6F7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALFvOQO59U9HZ--A7tmBhOy+8Yvt4_O+EtcacEyi1cZikpqRzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN-Dau1OQdHhcrgMamy_-bquq42KqTZKhTVdBh6+uyDi_b+ybA@mail.gmail.com>

I debated using the word "underrepresented", I couldn't find a better word,
the english language is lacking, or at least my vocabulary is.

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 2:17 PM, John Comfort <john at comfortconsulting.com>
wrote:

> To state that women are underrepresented because the board currently has
> no women is a misnomer and only perpetuates the political propaganda
> without any substantive data to confirm the situation even exists.  If a
> particular woman has the appropriate credentials and experience necessary
> to become a member of the board, then there is no reason why she wouldn't
> be elected except that a male or another female candidate has better
> credentials and/or more relevant experience.
>
> The election requirements should be based on merit only.  Do not give
> prejudicial treatment to any person whether male or female to further
> external, irrelevant agendas.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:58 AM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Jason and Rob, simply expanding the number of board seats
>> without some mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand
>> diversity is not helpful, and I can not support such a change.  I will note
>> it is theoretically possible that, the membership will fill the new Board
>> seats with a more diverse set of board members, but it is equally, if not
>> more, likely that they will not, and the board will look much as it does
>> today but slightly larger.  A slightly larger board that has more diversity
>> is a fair trade-off and I support such a change if it includes a mechanism
>> to ensure that the new seats actually expand diversity.
>>
>> I don't think a regional representation system would be helpful over all,
>> it wouldn't necessarily help increasing the number of women on the board,
>> and it would formalize a constituency for some board members that isn't the
>> whole membership, and I'm not sure that would be a healthy change either.
>>
>> As an alternative, I would propose that the board earmark the additional
>> seat in each class for candidates with particular divers properties that
>> are underrepresented on the board.  Currently, I see the most pressing lack
>> of diversity being women in general and anyone from the Caribbean.  So I
>> would propose that the extra seat for the 1st and 3rd class of broad
>> members be earmarked for women, and the extra seat in the 2nd class be
>> earmarked for someone from the Caribbean.  Overtime if the make up of the
>> board changes the earmarks could be changed to select candidates with other
>> divers properties or if in the future it is felt that sufficient diversity
>> can be maintained without earmarks, the earmarks could be eliminated.
>>
>> Under this proposal, there would be two(2) general seats with the current
>> qualifications, and one special diversity seat per class with the current
>> qualifications plus additional diversity qualifications specified by the
>> board, maybe with input from the community and/or the nomcom.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> --
>> ===============================================
>> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>> Office of Information Technology
>> University of Minnesota
>> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815 <(612)%20626-0815>
>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952 <(612)%20812-9952>
>> ===============================================
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Consult
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
>> Consult Mailing
>> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
>> ARIN Member Services
>> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>
>
>


-- 
===============================================
David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
===============================================
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From mike at iptrading.com  Tue Jun  6 16:01:02 2017
From: mike at iptrading.com (Mike Burns)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 16:01:02 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAN-Dau1OQdHhcrgMamy_-bquq42KqTZKhTVdBh6+uyDi_b+ybA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
 <CAN-Dau0=6PfPgPgiVh5Lvm5-6tstaZMJ_YWOFacS3mzzfG6F7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALFvOQO59U9HZ--A7tmBhOy+8Yvt4_O+EtcacEyi1cZikpqRzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN-Dau1OQdHhcrgMamy_-bquq42KqTZKhTVdBh6+uyDi_b+ybA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a501d2deff$9f9d0420$ded70c60$@iptrading.com>

Hello,

 

Can we talk about the problem this change is designed to address?

 

Have there been decisions taken in the past by the ARIN board which could be said to be a result of lack of diversity on the board?

For example, has the board corrected a mistake because a prior decision failed to include the input of a small business owner, or a resident of the Caribbean, or a lawyer?

 

Do issues like gender or race even impact the decision-making ability of a board whose job revolves around number policy?

 

Or are we to assume that lack of diversity is itself the problem? 

That even if the non-diverse board and a hypothetical diverse board reached the same conclusions, there is still a problem with the former?

 

Is this an optics problem?  That is, are we addressing not a problem related to number policy, but a self-esteem problem of some community members?

Or are we saying the ARIN board doesn?t understand Caribbean legal issues or network peculiarities, resulting in bad decisions?

The second case is much more interesting to me.

 

The problems which will inevitably arise out of this effort should be considered, and I haven?t really heard them all addressed.

 

First, who decides what groups should be included in the sought-after diversity? We have suggestions for gender and regional membership already.

What about LBTQ, black, Hispanic, physically-challenged or poor community members?

Can those groups be left out of consideration? What is the process of review and revision of these selections? A free-for-all on the ARIN-consult list? I am not looking forward to the debate over the last reserved seat- does it go to the poor or the Caribbean?  What if a gay, poor Caribbean runs for that seat, does he/she check three boxes or only one? Are these appropriate discussions for numbers-stewards?  It?s a quagmire.

 

Second, once the groups are defined, then what is the mechanism to ensure actual membership in the group? How are we sure who is a woman, who is poor, who is physically handicapped, or who is gay?  Do we have surplus Election committee members itching to verify this information?

 

Third, this would further the implicit assumption that even members of a small group whose aegis extends only to regional number policy vote tribally, and the only solution is to ensure participation of every tribe on the board. I think we should instead be focusing on the open-ness of the stakeholder model, with open and meritocratic elections being a foundational principle.

 

Fourth, restricting qualified members from running from some board seats due to immutable characteristics like skin color or gender or ethnicity could potentially reduce the overall quality of the board.

 

Fifth, intra-ARIN tribalism will naturally drive discourse in ways that tend to exacerbate differences so as to justify current diversity preferences, in my opinion, and that includes introducing non-numbers-related issues where we should only care about the numbers.

 

Sixth, a larger board makes meetings and communications among board members more difficult.

 

Seventh, quota-seat members could feel (and be perceived as) inferior or junior members.

 

I don?t support any change to the number of seats on the board, and I don?t think the language that existed which allowed for the appointment of an additional member was designed for increasing bland and generic diversity. I think it was put there to address any particular unusual eventuality which required missing expertise. Maybe expertise in large public accounting, or expertise in law enforcement, or in private investigation or legislative compliance. The use of the seat to address a lack of representation of any particular GROUP removes the intended ability of use for a particular EXPERTISE should that be needed.

 

As it stands today, the community is free to nominate and vote for any member who is qualified. Before that right is removed from the community, can we please understand the severity of the problem?

 

Can somebody provide an example of a Board decision which would have benefitted from more diversity?

 

Regards,

Mike Burns

 

 

From: ARIN-consult [mailto:arin-consult-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of David Farmer
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 3:54 PM
To: John Comfort <john at comfortconsulting.com>
Cc: <arin-consult at arin.net> <arin-consult at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees

 

I debated using the word "underrepresented", I couldn't find a better word, the english language is lacking, or at least my vocabulary is.

 

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 2:17 PM, John Comfort <john at comfortconsulting.com <mailto:john at comfortconsulting.com> > wrote:

To state that women are underrepresented because the board currently has no women is a misnomer and only perpetuates the political propaganda without any substantive data to confirm the situation even exists.  If a particular woman has the appropriate credentials and experience necessary to become a member of the board, then there is no reason why she wouldn't be elected except that a male or another female candidate has better credentials and/or more relevant experience.

The election requirements should be based on merit only.  Do not give prejudicial treatment to any person whether male or female to further external, irrelevant agendas.






 

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:58 AM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu <mailto:farmer at umn.edu> > wrote:

I agree with Jason and Rob, simply expanding the number of board seats without some mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand diversity is not helpful, and I can not support such a change.  I will note it is theoretically possible that, the membership will fill the new Board seats with a more diverse set of board members, but it is equally, if not more, likely that they will not, and the board will look much as it does today but slightly larger.  A slightly larger board that has more diversity is a fair trade-off and I support such a change if it includes a mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand diversity.

 

I don't think a regional representation system would be helpful over all, it wouldn't necessarily help increasing the number of women on the board, and it would formalize a constituency for some board members that isn't the whole membership, and I'm not sure that would be a healthy change either.

 

As an alternative, I would propose that the board earmark the additional seat in each class for candidates with particular divers properties that are underrepresented on the board.  Currently, I see the most pressing lack of diversity being women in general and anyone from the Caribbean.  So I would propose that the extra seat for the 1st and 3rd class of broad members be earmarked for women, and the extra seat in the 2nd class be earmarked for someone from the Caribbean.  Overtime if the make up of the board changes the earmarks could be changed to select candidates with other divers properties or if in the future it is felt that sufficient diversity can be maintained without earmarks, the earmarks could be eliminated. 

 

Under this proposal, there would be two(2) general seats with the current qualifications, and one special diversity seat per class with the current qualifications plus additional diversity qualifications specified by the board, maybe with input from the community and/or the nomcom.

 

Thanks.




 

-- 

===============================================
David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu <mailto:Email%3Afarmer at umn.edu> 
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota   
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815 <tel:(612)%20626-0815> 
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952 <tel:(612)%20812-9952> 
=============================================== 


_______________________________________________
ARIN-Consult
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing
List (ARIN-consult at arin.net <mailto:ARIN-consult at arin.net> ).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the ARIN Member Services
Help Desk at info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net>  if you experience any issues.

 





 

-- 

===============================================
David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu <mailto:Email%3Afarmer at umn.edu> 
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota   
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
=============================================== 

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From spiffnolee at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  7 11:33:13 2017
From: spiffnolee at yahoo.com (Lee Howard)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:33:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <00a501d2deff$9f9d0420$ded70c60$@iptrading.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
 <CAN-Dau0=6PfPgPgiVh5Lvm5-6tstaZMJ_YWOFacS3mzzfG6F7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALFvOQO59U9HZ--A7tmBhOy+8Yvt4_O+EtcacEyi1cZikpqRzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN-Dau1OQdHhcrgMamy_-bquq42KqTZKhTVdBh6+uyDi_b+ybA@mail.gmail.com>
 <00a501d2deff$9f9d0420$ded70c60$@iptrading.com>
Message-ID: <248886925.3715556.1496849593039@mail.yahoo.com>


> Can somebody provide an example of a Board decision which would have benefitted from more diversity?
I can't. 
But then, how would we know? There are different network architectures in small island nations than in large networks. Have we done anything that disadvantages those networks? At the Board level, are there differences in accounting, bookkeeping, or legal frameworks that make it hard for those organizations to participate or contribute or grow? 
Or community networks, WISPs, networks serving native populations, or other kinds of networks?
Another direction of wonder is whether there's a style of debate, or collaboration, or contribution, that is missing, because people from different cultures work together differently. Might a different style of participation add richness (in the form of better-considered decisions) to Board work?
Without someone at the table, it's hard to know what you might be missing.
Lee

      From: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
 To: 'David Farmer' <farmer at umn.edu>; 'John Comfort' <john at comfortconsulting.com> 
Cc: arin-consult at arin.net
 Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 1:01 PM
 Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees
   
#yiv6582195993 #yiv6582195993 -- _filtered #yiv6582195993 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6582195993 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv6582195993 #yiv6582195993 p.yiv6582195993MsoNormal, #yiv6582195993 li.yiv6582195993MsoNormal, #yiv6582195993 div.yiv6582195993MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6582195993 a:link, #yiv6582195993 span.yiv6582195993MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6582195993 a:visited, #yiv6582195993 span.yiv6582195993MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6582195993 p.yiv6582195993msonormal0, #yiv6582195993 li.yiv6582195993msonormal0, #yiv6582195993 div.yiv6582195993msonormal0 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6582195993 span.yiv6582195993gmail-m7698638463637073985hoenzb {}#yiv6582195993 span.yiv6582195993EmailStyle19 {color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}#yiv6582195993 .yiv6582195993MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv6582195993 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv6582195993 div.yiv6582195993WordSection1 {}#yiv6582195993 Hello, ?Can we talk about the problem this change is designed to address? ?Have there been decisions taken in the past by the ARIN board which could be said to be a result of lack of diversity on the board?For example, has the board corrected a mistake because a prior decision failed to include the input of a small business owner, or a resident of the Caribbean, or a lawyer? ?Do issues like gender or race even impact the decision-making ability of a board whose job revolves around number policy? ?Or are we to assume that lack of diversity is itself the problem? That even if the non-diverse board and a hypothetical diverse board reached the same conclusions, there is still a problem with the former? ?Is this an optics problem?? That is, are we addressing not a problem related to number policy, but a self-esteem problem of some community members?Or are we saying the ARIN board doesn?t understand Caribbean legal issues or network peculiarities, resulting in bad decisions?The second case is much more interesting to me. ?The problems which will inevitably arise out of this effort should be considered, and I haven?t really heard them all addressed. ?First, who decides what groups should be included in the sought-after diversity? We have suggestions for gender and regional membership already.What about LBTQ, black, Hispanic, physically-challenged or poor community members?Can those groups be left out of consideration? What is the process of review and revision of these selections? A free-for-all on the ARIN-consult list? I am not looking forward to the debate over the last reserved seat- does it go to the poor or the Caribbean?? What if a gay, poor Caribbean runs for that seat, does he/she check three boxes or only one? Are these appropriate discussions for numbers-stewards?? It?s a quagmire. ?Second, once the groups are defined, then what is the mechanism to ensure actual membership in the group? How are we sure who is a woman, who is poor, who is physically handicapped, or who is gay?? Do we have surplus Election committee members itching to verify this information? ?Third, this would further the implicit assumption that even members of a small group whose aegis extends only to regional number policy vote tribally, and the only solution is to ensure participation of every tribe on the board. I think we should instead be focusing on the open-ness of the stakeholder model, with open and meritocratic elections being a foundational principle. ?Fourth, restricting qualified members from running from some board seats due to immutable characteristics like skin color or gender or ethnicity could potentially reduce the overall quality of the board. ?Fifth, intra-ARIN tribalism will naturally drive discourse in ways that tend to exacerbate differences so as to justify current diversity preferences, in my opinion, and that includes introducing non-numbers-related issues where we should only care about the numbers. ?Sixth, a larger board makes meetings and communications among board members more difficult. ?Seventh, quota-seat members could feel (and be perceived as) inferior or junior members. ?I don?t support any change to the number of seats on the board, and I don?t think the language that existed which allowed for the appointment of an additional member was designed for increasing bland and generic diversity. I think it was put there to address any particular unusual eventuality which required missing expertise. Maybe expertise in large public accounting, or expertise in law enforcement, or in private investigation or legislative compliance. The use of the seat to address a lack of representation of any particular GROUP removes the intended ability of use for a particular EXPERTISE should that be needed. ?As it stands today, the community is free to nominate and vote for any member who is qualified. Before that right is removed from the community, can we please understand the severity of the problem? ?Can somebody provide an example of a Board decision which would have benefitted from more diversity? ?Regards,Mike Burns ? ?From: ARIN-consult [mailto:arin-consult-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of David Farmer
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 3:54 PM
To: John Comfort <john at comfortconsulting.com>
Cc: <arin-consult at arin.net> <arin-consult at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees ?I debated using the word "underrepresented", I couldn't find a better word, the english language is lacking, or at least my vocabulary is. ?On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 2:17 PM, John Comfort <john at comfortconsulting.com> wrote:
To state that women are underrepresented because the board currently has no women is a misnomer and only perpetuates the political propaganda without any substantive data to confirm the situation even exists.? If a particular woman has the appropriate credentials and experience necessary to become a member of the board, then there is no reason why she wouldn't be elected except that a male or another female candidate has better credentials and/or more relevant experience.The election requirements should be based on merit only.? Do not give prejudicial treatment to any person whether male or female to further external, irrelevant agendas.




 ?On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:58 AM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
I agree with Jason and Rob, simply expanding the number of board seats without some mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand diversity is not helpful, and I can not support such a change.? I will note it is theoretically possible that, the membership will fill the new Board seats with a more diverse set of board members, but it is equally, if not more, likely that they will not, and the board will look much as it does today but slightly larger.? A slightly larger board that has more diversity is a fair trade-off and I support such a change if it includes a mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand diversity. ?I don't think a regional representation system would be helpful over all, it wouldn't necessarily help increasing the number of women on the board, and it would formalize a constituency for some board members that isn't the whole membership, and I'm not sure that would be a healthy change either. ?As an alternative, I would propose that the board earmark the additional seat in each class for candidates with particular divers properties that are underrepresented on the board.? Currently, I see the most pressing lack of diversity being women in general and anyone from the Caribbean.? So I would propose that the extra seat for the 1st and 3rd class of broad members be earmarked for women, and the extra seat in the 2nd class be earmarked for someone from the Caribbean.? Overtime if the make up of the board changes the earmarks could be changed to select candidates with other divers properties or if in the future it is felt that sufficient diversity can be maintained without earmarks, the earmarks could be eliminated.? ?Under this proposal, there would be two(2) general seats with the current qualifications, and one special diversity seat per class with the current qualifications plus additional diversity qualifications specified by the board, maybe with input from the community and/or the nomcom. ?Thanks.
 ?-- ===============================================
David Farmer? ? ? ? ? ? ?? Email:farmer at umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota?? 
2218 University Ave SE? ? ? ? Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029?? Cell: 612-812-9952
=============================================== 
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 ?


 ?-- ===============================================
David Farmer? ? ? ? ? ? ?? Email:farmer at umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota?? 
2218 University Ave SE? ? ? ? Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029?? Cell: 612-812-9952
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From mike at iptrading.com  Wed Jun  7 12:25:55 2017
From: mike at iptrading.com (Mike Burns)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:25:55 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <248886925.3715556.1496849593039@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
 <CAN-Dau0=6PfPgPgiVh5Lvm5-6tstaZMJ_YWOFacS3mzzfG6F7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALFvOQO59U9HZ--A7tmBhOy+8Yvt4_O+EtcacEyi1cZikpqRzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN-Dau1OQdHhcrgMamy_-bquq42KqTZKhTVdBh6+uyDi_b+ybA@mail.gmail.com>
 <00a501d2deff$9f9d0420$ded70c60$@iptrading.com>
 <248886925.3715556.1496849593039@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <006b01d2dfaa$bce0a900$36a1fb00$@iptrading.com>

Hi Lee,

 

I agree that it is hard to prove a negative, or to say that a less-diverse board is missing an opportunity.

But I think that before we make any moves which might have a negative effect, we should first have some evidence that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. 

 

I hear you saying that we really can?t know now what benefits might accrue from adding diverse voices to the board.

Fair enough, but is that really a problem statement?

And don?t we already have the capability, as a community, of making the board as diverse as we want?

 

Maybe there is no problem, but there is a goal?

Even though we may debate the goal, it seems like the discussed solution involves a reduction in the community?s ability to select whom it prefers to sit on the board. And a reduction in the ability of every community member to run for every board seat. So it?s not like this is a solution that should be considered carelessly, as a throwaway. For the first time, it seems to me, the ARIN organization would be differentiating member from member in an official recognition. No more equality of small and big business, government and education, Canadian and Caribbean. What is being considered is anti-democratic and anti-meritocratic on its face, and a quagmire in practice.

 

There might be unknown benefits from adding diverse voices. Or from eliminating the board. Or doubling its size. Or creating term limits. 

 

For me, if it?s not broke, don?t fix it. 

If it?s broke, show me how it?s broke, and we can work on the fix in the context of number policy.

 

Regards,

Mike

 

 

 

 

From: Lee Howard [mailto:spiffnolee at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2017 11:33 AM
To: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>; 'David Farmer' <farmer at umn.edu>; 'John Comfort' <john at comfortconsulting.com>
Cc: arin-consult at arin.net
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees

 

 

> Can somebody provide an example of a Board decision which would have benefitted from more diversity?





I can't. 



But then, how would we know? There are different network architectures in small island nations than in large networks. Have we done anything that disadvantages those networks? At the Board level, are there differences in accounting, bookkeeping, or legal frameworks that make it hard for those organizations to participate or contribute or grow? 



Or community networks, WISPs, networks serving native populations, or other kinds of networks?





Another direction of wonder is whether there's a style of debate, or collaboration, or contribution, that is missing, because people from different cultures work together differently. Might a different style of participation add richness (in the form of better-considered decisions) to Board work?





Without someone at the table, it's hard to know what you might be missing.





Lee









  _____  

From: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com <mailto:mike at iptrading.com> >
To: 'David Farmer' <farmer at umn.edu <mailto:farmer at umn.edu> >; 'John Comfort' <john at comfortconsulting.com <mailto:john at comfortconsulting.com> > 
Cc: arin-consult at arin.net <mailto:arin-consult at arin.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees

 

Hello,

 

Can we talk about the problem this change is designed to address?

 

Have there been decisions taken in the past by the ARIN board which could be said to be a result of lack of diversity on the board?

For example, has the board corrected a mistake because a prior decision failed to include the input of a small business owner, or a resident of the Caribbean, or a lawyer?

 

Do issues like gender or race even impact the decision-making ability of a board whose job revolves around number policy?

 

Or are we to assume that lack of diversity is itself the problem? 

That even if the non-diverse board and a hypothetical diverse board reached the same conclusions, there is still a problem with the former?

 

Is this an optics problem?  That is, are we addressing not a problem related to number policy, but a self-esteem problem of some community members?

Or are we saying the ARIN board doesn?t understand Caribbean legal issues or network peculiarities, resulting in bad decisions?

The second case is much more interesting to me.

 

The problems which will inevitably arise out of this effort should be considered, and I haven?t really heard them all addressed.

 

First, who decides what groups should be included in the sought-after diversity? We have suggestions for gender and regional membership already.

What about LBTQ, black, Hispanic, physically-challenged or poor community members?

Can those groups be left out of consideration? What is the process of review and revision of these selections? A free-for-all on the ARIN-consult list? I am not looking forward to the debate over the last reserved seat- does it go to the poor or the Caribbean?  What if a gay, poor Caribbean runs for that seat, does he/she check three boxes or only one? Are these appropriate discussions for numbers-stewards?  It?s a quagmire.

 

Second, once the groups are defined, then what is the mechanism to ensure actual membership in the group? How are we sure who is a woman, who is poor, who is physically handicapped, or who is gay?  Do we have surplus Election committee members itching to verify this information?

 

Third, this would further the implicit assumption that even members of a small group whose aegis extends only to regional number policy vote tribally, and the only solution is to ensure participation of every tribe on the board. I think we should instead be focusing on the open-ness of the stakeholder model, with open and meritocratic elections being a foundational principle.

 

Fourth, restricting qualified members from running from some board seats due to immutable characteristics like skin color or gender or ethnicity could potentially reduce the overall quality of the board.

 

Fifth, intra-ARIN tribalism will naturally drive discourse in ways that tend to exacerbate differences so as to justify current diversity preferences, in my opinion, and that includes introducing non-numbers-related issues where we should only care about the numbers.

 

Sixth, a larger board makes meetings and communications among board members more difficult.

 

Seventh, quota-seat members could feel (and be perceived as) inferior or junior members.

 

I don?t support any change to the number of seats on the board, and I don?t think the language that existed which allowed for the appointment of an additional member was designed for increasing bland and generic diversity. I think it was put there to address any particular unusual eventuality which required missing expertise. Maybe expertise in large public accounting, or expertise in law enforcement, or in private investigation or legislative compliance. The use of the seat to address a lack of representation of any particular GROUP removes the intended ability of use for a particular EXPERTISE should that be needed.

 

As it stands today, the community is free to nominate and vote for any member who is qualified. Before that right is removed from the community, can we please understand the severity of the problem?

 

Can somebody provide an example of a Board decision which would have benefitted from more diversity?

 

Regards,

Mike Burns

 

 

From: ARIN-consult [mailto:arin-consult-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of David Farmer
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 3:54 PM
To: John Comfort <john at comfortconsulting.com <mailto:john at comfortconsulting.com> >
Cc: <arin-consult at arin.net <mailto:arin-consult at arin.net> > <arin-consult at arin.net <mailto:arin-consult at arin.net> >
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees

 

I debated using the word "underrepresented", I couldn't find a better word, the english language is lacking, or at least my vocabulary is.

 

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 2:17 PM, John Comfort <john at comfortconsulting.com <mailto:john at comfortconsulting.com> > wrote:

To state that women are underrepresented because the board currently has no women is a misnomer and only perpetuates the political propaganda without any substantive data to confirm the situation even exists.  If a particular woman has the appropriate credentials and experience necessary to become a member of the board, then there is no reason why she wouldn't be elected except that a male or another female candidate has better credentials and/or more relevant experience.

The election requirements should be based on merit only.  Do not give prejudicial treatment to any person whether male or female to further external, irrelevant agendas.





 

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:58 AM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu <mailto:farmer at umn.edu> > wrote:

I agree with Jason and Rob, simply expanding the number of board seats without some mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand diversity is not helpful, and I can not support such a change.  I will note it is theoretically possible that, the membership will fill the new Board seats with a more diverse set of board members, but it is equally, if not more, likely that they will not, and the board will look much as it does today but slightly larger.  A slightly larger board that has more diversity is a fair trade-off and I support such a change if it includes a mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand diversity.

 

I don't think a regional representation system would be helpful over all, it wouldn't necessarily help increasing the number of women on the board, and it would formalize a constituency for some board members that isn't the whole membership, and I'm not sure that would be a healthy change either.

 

As an alternative, I would propose that the board earmark the additional seat in each class for candidates with particular divers properties that are underrepresented on the board.  Currently, I see the most pressing lack of diversity being women in general and anyone from the Caribbean.  So I would propose that the extra seat for the 1st and 3rd class of broad members be earmarked for women, and the extra seat in the 2nd class be earmarked for someone from the Caribbean.  Overtime if the make up of the board changes the earmarks could be changed to select candidates with other divers properties or if in the future it is felt that sufficient diversity can be maintained without earmarks, the earmarks could be eliminated. 

 

Under this proposal, there would be two(2) general seats with the current qualifications, and one special diversity seat per class with the current qualifications plus additional diversity qualifications specified by the board, maybe with input from the community and/or the nomcom.

 

Thanks.




 

-- 

===============================================
David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu <mailto:Email%3Afarmer at umn.edu> 
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota   
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
=============================================== 


_______________________________________________
ARIN-Consult
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing
List (ARIN-consult at arin.net <mailto:ARIN-consult at arin.net> ).
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Help Desk at info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net>  if you experience any issues.

 





 

-- 

===============================================
David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu <mailto:Email%3Afarmer at umn.edu> 
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota   
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
=============================================== 

_______________________________________________
ARIN-Consult
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing
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From bill at herrin.us  Wed Jun  7 12:48:32 2017
From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:48:32 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
Message-ID: <CAP-guGW+xXU6kT=1_WxSsaYBiUOwgM71fp-jAzYX4NSSUpJ=Dw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:00 AM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:

> Diversity relates to the variety of experiences, history, and backgrounds
> who will serve on the Board (or the AC, or any other body for that matter)
>

John,

Respectfully, this is an impossibly subjective standard on which to hang a
credible decision making process. Pending an objective standard of
diversity accepted by the existing board, I believe the question of
enlarging the board should halt. Full stop.

Regards,
Bill Herrin



-- 
William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
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From jcurran at arin.net  Wed Jun  7 13:06:45 2017
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:06:45 +0000
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAP-guGW+xXU6kT=1_WxSsaYBiUOwgM71fp-jAzYX4NSSUpJ=Dw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
 <CAP-guGW+xXU6kT=1_WxSsaYBiUOwgM71fp-jAzYX4NSSUpJ=Dw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A00B4EDA-E715-45AE-9A90-4980EF461EF0@arin.net>

On 7 Jun 2017, at 9:48 AM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us<mailto:bill at herrin.us>> wrote:

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:00 AM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net<mailto:jcurran at arin.net>> wrote:
Diversity relates to the variety of experiences, history, and backgrounds
who will serve on the Board (or the AC, or any other body for that matter)

John,

Respectfully, this is an impossibly subjective standard on which to hang a credible decision making process. Pending an objective standard of diversity accepted by the existing board, I believe the question of enlarging the board should halt. Full stop.

Bill -

   To some extent, the Board has ramped up its discussion of diversity as a result
   of community-expressed interest in the topic (e.g. as raised from the floor at the
   recent ARIN meetings...)   I do not recall any objective standard of diversity having
   been suggested, but given that the Board is trying to be responsive to community
   input, perhaps the Board should hear more from the community on what objective
   standard of diversity it feels would be appropriate.  Do you have a specific standard
   in mind?

Thanks!
/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN

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From bill at herrin.us  Wed Jun  7 13:39:27 2017
From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 13:39:27 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <A00B4EDA-E715-45AE-9A90-4980EF461EF0@arin.net>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
 <CAP-guGW+xXU6kT=1_WxSsaYBiUOwgM71fp-jAzYX4NSSUpJ=Dw@mail.gmail.com>
 <A00B4EDA-E715-45AE-9A90-4980EF461EF0@arin.net>
Message-ID: <CAP-guGXcGMDm4P9mXtNVH1xyHddnmZs03tLnb1Ag0yJHhvOtJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:06 PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:

>    To some extent, the Board has ramped up its discussion of diversity as
> a result
>    of community-expressed interest in the topic (e.g. as raised from the
> floor at the
>    recent ARIN meetings...)   I do not recall any objective standard of
> diversity having
>    been suggested, but given that the Board is trying to be responsive to
> community
>    input, perhaps the Board should hear more from the community on what
> objective
>    standard of diversity it feels would be appropriate.  Do you have a
> specific standard
>    in mind?
>

Hi John,

In this context I personally think diversity of any definition is an
inappropriate goal. The board should be representative of the consumers of
number resources. With that criteria, who serves on the board (and how
many) is far less important than how the folks who serve on the board are
picked. That is, however, far off topic for this consultation.

So, I'll pretend you asked me a different question: "What kind of diversity
definitions would be objective?"

Race/religion/gender. The standbys.

General political ideology (conservative, liberal, libertarian, socialist,
centrist, etc.)

Home geography. An individual can be expected to better understand the ebb
and flow of custom, business and law where he actually lives.

Years in positions involving number resource management. Size of number
resources then managed (small, large, gargantuan).

Years in positions reflecting technical networking acumen versus
administrative resource management.

These things relate to the notion of "background diversity" and can be
objectively measured.

Regards,
Bill Herrin

-- 
William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
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From jschiller at google.com  Wed Jun  7 13:48:44 2017
From: jschiller at google.com (Jason Schiller)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 13:48:44 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <00a501d2deff$9f9d0420$ded70c60$@iptrading.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
 <CAN-Dau0=6PfPgPgiVh5Lvm5-6tstaZMJ_YWOFacS3mzzfG6F7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALFvOQO59U9HZ--A7tmBhOy+8Yvt4_O+EtcacEyi1cZikpqRzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN-Dau1OQdHhcrgMamy_-bquq42KqTZKhTVdBh6+uyDi_b+ybA@mail.gmail.com>
 <00a501d2deff$9f9d0420$ded70c60$@iptrading.com>
Message-ID: <CAC4yj2VL2AXsbMjZDe_hco8bdcDtqXOPNw=5baiXKuTXsheiCg@mail.gmail.com>

I think Mike brings questions worth considering
(either in the positive, or negative as Lee suggests)

I will not address any of these questions here and now, but
rather add another facet of complexity for consideration.

Currently the ARIN numbers community exists a larger
Global numbers community, which in turn exists in a
larger Internet community that converges in ICANN.

RIPE NCC has been looking into diversity:
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/agowland/diversity-discussions-at-ripe-74


Likewise ICANN is considering community accountability, transparency,
and diversity requirements of ACs (Advisory Committees) and
SOs (Supporting Organizations):

https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Diversity
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JatGDDEJdNrJb08OAH8at5ZaH7fUbBDNqc9EDxfXT0w/edit


In ICANN terms, an SO is where a community comes together to make
policy.

In the case of Global numbers policy the majority of this policy work
occurs within the 5 region RIRs, and the ASO shepherds the policy
proposal through the ICANN portion where the ICANN board
considers, questions and ratifies (or not) the proposed global policy.

Likewise the community meets within the 5 RIR systems, and
accountability and transparency mechanisms are those within the RIR
system (regional and Global PDP, RIR bylaws, RIR Policy development
meetings, and RIR policy mailing lists).

So if there is a need to meet some standard for community support,
community inclusiveness, transparency, diversity, etc, for the larger
Internet community, it might put some pressure on the standards that
the RIRs have in these areas.

At the very least, we should keep abreast of developments in these areas
in other RIRs and in ICANN, and see if there is anything of value worth
considering here.

__Jason




On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
>
> Can we talk about the problem this change is designed to address?
>
>
>
> Have there been decisions taken in the past by the ARIN board which could
> be said to be a result of lack of diversity on the board?
>
> For example, has the board corrected a mistake because a prior decision
> failed to include the input of a small business owner, or a resident of the
> Caribbean, or a lawyer?
>
>
>
> Do issues like gender or race even impact the decision-making ability of a
> board whose job revolves around number policy?
>
>
>
> Or are we to assume that lack of diversity is itself the problem?
>
> That even if the non-diverse board and a hypothetical diverse board
> reached the same conclusions, there is still a problem with the former?
>
>
>
> Is this an optics problem?  That is, are we addressing not a problem
> related to number policy, but a self-esteem problem of some community
> members?
>
> Or are we saying the ARIN board doesn?t understand Caribbean legal issues
> or network peculiarities, resulting in bad decisions?
>
> The second case is much more interesting to me.
>
>
>
> The problems which will inevitably arise out of this effort should be
> considered, and I haven?t really heard them all addressed.
>
>
>
> First, who decides what groups should be included in the sought-after
> diversity? We have suggestions for gender and regional membership already.
>
> What about LBTQ, black, Hispanic, physically-challenged or poor community
> members?
>
> Can those groups be left out of consideration? What is the process of
> review and revision of these selections? A free-for-all on the ARIN-consult
> list? I am not looking forward to the debate over the last reserved seat-
> does it go to the poor or the Caribbean?  What if a gay, poor Caribbean
> runs for that seat, does he/she check three boxes or only one? Are these
> appropriate discussions for numbers-stewards?  It?s a quagmire.
>
>
>
> Second, once the groups are defined, then what is the mechanism to ensure
> actual membership in the group? How are we sure who is a woman, who is
> poor, who is physically handicapped, or who is gay?  Do we have surplus
> Election committee members itching to verify this information?
>
>
>
> Third, this would further the implicit assumption that even members of a
> small group whose aegis extends only to regional number policy vote
> tribally, and the only solution is to ensure participation of every tribe
> on the board. I think we should instead be focusing on the open-ness of the
> stakeholder model, with open and meritocratic elections being a
> foundational principle.
>
>
>
> Fourth, restricting qualified members from running from some board seats
> due to immutable characteristics like skin color or gender or ethnicity
> could potentially reduce the overall quality of the board.
>
>
>
> Fifth, intra-ARIN tribalism will naturally drive discourse in ways that
> tend to exacerbate differences so as to justify current diversity
> preferences, in my opinion, and that includes introducing
> non-numbers-related issues where we should only care about the numbers.
>
>
>
> Sixth, a larger board makes meetings and communications among board
> members more difficult.
>
>
>
> Seventh, quota-seat members could feel (and be perceived as) inferior or
> junior members.
>
>
>
> I don?t support any change to the number of seats on the board, and I
> don?t think the language that existed which allowed for the appointment of
> an additional member was designed for increasing bland and generic
> diversity. I think it was put there to address any particular unusual
> eventuality which required missing expertise. Maybe expertise in large
> public accounting, or expertise in law enforcement, or in private
> investigation or legislative compliance. The use of the seat to address a
> lack of representation of any particular GROUP removes the intended ability
> of use for a particular EXPERTISE should that be needed.
>
>
>
> As it stands today, the community is free to nominate and vote for any
> member who is qualified. Before that right is removed from the community,
> can we please understand the severity of the problem?
>
>
>
> Can somebody provide an example of a Board decision which would have
> benefitted from more diversity?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike Burns
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ARIN-consult [mailto:arin-consult-bounces at arin.net] *On Behalf Of
> *David Farmer
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 06, 2017 3:54 PM
> *To:* John Comfort <john at comfortconsulting.com>
> *Cc:* <arin-consult at arin.net> <arin-consult at arin.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the
> size of the ARIN Board of Trustees
>
>
>
> I debated using the word "underrepresented", I couldn't find a better
> word, the english language is lacking, or at least my vocabulary is.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 2:17 PM, John Comfort <john at comfortconsulting.com>
> wrote:
>
> To state that women are underrepresented because the board currently has
> no women is a misnomer and only perpetuates the political propaganda
> without any substantive data to confirm the situation even exists.  If a
> particular woman has the appropriate credentials and experience necessary
> to become a member of the board, then there is no reason why she wouldn't
> be elected except that a male or another female candidate has better
> credentials and/or more relevant experience.
>
> The election requirements should be based on merit only.  Do not give
> prejudicial treatment to any person whether male or female to further
> external, irrelevant agendas.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:58 AM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>
> I agree with Jason and Rob, simply expanding the number of board seats
> without some mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand
> diversity is not helpful, and I can not support such a change.  I will note
> it is theoretically possible that, the membership will fill the new Board
> seats with a more diverse set of board members, but it is equally, if not
> more, likely that they will not, and the board will look much as it does
> today but slightly larger.  A slightly larger board that has more diversity
> is a fair trade-off and I support such a change if it includes a mechanism
> to ensure that the new seats actually expand diversity.
>
>
>
> I don't think a regional representation system would be helpful over all,
> it wouldn't necessarily help increasing the number of women on the board,
> and it would formalize a constituency for some board members that isn't the
> whole membership, and I'm not sure that would be a healthy change either.
>
>
>
> As an alternative, I would propose that the board earmark the additional
> seat in each class for candidates with particular divers properties that
> are underrepresented on the board.  Currently, I see the most pressing lack
> of diversity being women in general and anyone from the Caribbean.  So I
> would propose that the extra seat for the 1st and 3rd class of broad
> members be earmarked for women, and the extra seat in the 2nd class be
> earmarked for someone from the Caribbean.  Overtime if the make up of the
> board changes the earmarks could be changed to select candidates with other
> divers properties or if in the future it is felt that sufficient diversity
> can be maintained without earmarks, the earmarks could be eliminated.
>
>
>
> Under this proposal, there would be two(2) general seats with the current
> qualifications, and one special diversity seat per class with the current
> qualifications plus additional diversity qualifications specified by the
> board, maybe with input from the community and/or the nomcom.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> ===============================================
> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815 <(612)%20626-0815>
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952 <(612)%20812-9952>
> ===============================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
> ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> ===============================================
> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815 <(612)%20626-0815>
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952 <(612)%20812-9952>
> ===============================================
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
> ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>



-- 
_______________________________________________________
Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com|571-266-0006
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From bjones at vt.edu  Wed Jun  7 14:46:17 2017
From: bjones at vt.edu (Brian Jones)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:46:17 +0000
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAC4yj2VL2AXsbMjZDe_hco8bdcDtqXOPNw=5baiXKuTXsheiCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1798B5-CAFC-45DF-A72E-A55C91087D2D@arin.net>
 <CAN-Dau0=6PfPgPgiVh5Lvm5-6tstaZMJ_YWOFacS3mzzfG6F7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALFvOQO59U9HZ--A7tmBhOy+8Yvt4_O+EtcacEyi1cZikpqRzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN-Dau1OQdHhcrgMamy_-bquq42KqTZKhTVdBh6+uyDi_b+ybA@mail.gmail.com>
 <00a501d2deff$9f9d0420$ded70c60$@iptrading.com>
 <CAC4yj2VL2AXsbMjZDe_hco8bdcDtqXOPNw=5baiXKuTXsheiCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANyqO+F_eZ6tkZbWUq2kHOstJQ_xocriZSnt5mpLgSH+yQvLNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the references Jason. It looks like RIPE has gone with a first
step of focused effort on gender diversity. They have also created a
Diversity Task Force to formalize their discovery process.

You can subscribe to their Diversity emailing list here:
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity


Brian

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:49 PM Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com> wrote:

> I think Mike brings questions worth considering
> (either in the positive, or negative as Lee suggests)
>
> I will not address any of these questions here and now, but
> rather add another facet of complexity for consideration.
>
> Currently the ARIN numbers community exists a larger
> Global numbers community, which in turn exists in a
> larger Internet community that converges in ICANN.
>
> RIPE NCC has been looking into diversity:
> https://labs.ripe.net/Members/agowland/diversity-discussions-at-ripe-74
>
>
> Likewise ICANN is considering community accountability, transparency,
> and diversity requirements of ACs (Advisory Committees) and
> SOs (Supporting Organizations):
>
> https://community.icann.org/display/WEIA/Diversity
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JatGDDEJdNrJb08OAH8at5ZaH7fUbBDNqc9EDxfXT0w/edit
>
>
> In ICANN terms, an SO is where a community comes together to make
> policy.
>
> In the case of Global numbers policy the majority of this policy work
> occurs within the 5 region RIRs, and the ASO shepherds the policy
> proposal through the ICANN portion where the ICANN board
> considers, questions and ratifies (or not) the proposed global policy.
>
> Likewise the community meets within the 5 RIR systems, and
> accountability and transparency mechanisms are those within the RIR
> system (regional and Global PDP, RIR bylaws, RIR Policy development
> meetings, and RIR policy mailing lists).
>
> So if there is a need to meet some standard for community support,
> community inclusiveness, transparency, diversity, etc, for the larger
> Internet community, it might put some pressure on the standards that
> the RIRs have in these areas.
>
> At the very least, we should keep abreast of developments in these areas
> in other RIRs and in ICANN, and see if there is anything of value worth
> considering here.
>
> __Jason
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> Can we talk about the problem this change is designed to address?
>>
>>
>>
>> Have there been decisions taken in the past by the ARIN board which could
>> be said to be a result of lack of diversity on the board?
>>
>> For example, has the board corrected a mistake because a prior decision
>> failed to include the input of a small business owner, or a resident of the
>> Caribbean, or a lawyer?
>>
>>
>>
>> Do issues like gender or race even impact the decision-making ability of
>> a board whose job revolves around number policy?
>>
>>
>>
>> Or are we to assume that lack of diversity is itself the problem?
>>
>> That even if the non-diverse board and a hypothetical diverse board
>> reached the same conclusions, there is still a problem with the former?
>>
>>
>>
>> Is this an optics problem?  That is, are we addressing not a problem
>> related to number policy, but a self-esteem problem of some community
>> members?
>>
>> Or are we saying the ARIN board doesn?t understand Caribbean legal issues
>> or network peculiarities, resulting in bad decisions?
>>
>> The second case is much more interesting to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> The problems which will inevitably arise out of this effort should be
>> considered, and I haven?t really heard them all addressed.
>>
>>
>>
>> First, who decides what groups should be included in the sought-after
>> diversity? We have suggestions for gender and regional membership already.
>>
>> What about LBTQ, black, Hispanic, physically-challenged or poor community
>> members?
>>
>> Can those groups be left out of consideration? What is the process of
>> review and revision of these selections? A free-for-all on the ARIN-consult
>> list? I am not looking forward to the debate over the last reserved seat-
>> does it go to the poor or the Caribbean?  What if a gay, poor Caribbean
>> runs for that seat, does he/she check three boxes or only one? Are these
>> appropriate discussions for numbers-stewards?  It?s a quagmire.
>>
>>
>>
>> Second, once the groups are defined, then what is the mechanism to ensure
>> actual membership in the group? How are we sure who is a woman, who is
>> poor, who is physically handicapped, or who is gay?  Do we have surplus
>> Election committee members itching to verify this information?
>>
>>
>>
>> Third, this would further the implicit assumption that even members of a
>> small group whose aegis extends only to regional number policy vote
>> tribally, and the only solution is to ensure participation of every tribe
>> on the board. I think we should instead be focusing on the open-ness of the
>> stakeholder model, with open and meritocratic elections being a
>> foundational principle.
>>
>>
>>
>> Fourth, restricting qualified members from running from some board seats
>> due to immutable characteristics like skin color or gender or ethnicity
>> could potentially reduce the overall quality of the board.
>>
>>
>>
>> Fifth, intra-ARIN tribalism will naturally drive discourse in ways that
>> tend to exacerbate differences so as to justify current diversity
>> preferences, in my opinion, and that includes introducing
>> non-numbers-related issues where we should only care about the numbers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sixth, a larger board makes meetings and communications among board
>> members more difficult.
>>
>>
>>
>> Seventh, quota-seat members could feel (and be perceived as) inferior or
>> junior members.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don?t support any change to the number of seats on the board, and I
>> don?t think the language that existed which allowed for the appointment of
>> an additional member was designed for increasing bland and generic
>> diversity. I think it was put there to address any particular unusual
>> eventuality which required missing expertise. Maybe expertise in large
>> public accounting, or expertise in law enforcement, or in private
>> investigation or legislative compliance. The use of the seat to address a
>> lack of representation of any particular GROUP removes the intended ability
>> of use for a particular EXPERTISE should that be needed.
>>
>>
>>
>> As it stands today, the community is free to nominate and vote for any
>> member who is qualified. Before that right is removed from the community,
>> can we please understand the severity of the problem?
>>
>>
>>
>> Can somebody provide an example of a Board decision which would have
>> benefitted from more diversity?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mike Burns
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ARIN-consult [mailto:arin-consult-bounces at arin.net] *On Behalf
>> Of *David Farmer
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 06, 2017 3:54 PM
>> *To:* John Comfort <john at comfortconsulting.com>
>> *Cc:* <arin-consult at arin.net> <arin-consult at arin.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the
>> size of the ARIN Board of Trustees
>>
>>
>>
>> I debated using the word "underrepresented", I couldn't find a better
>> word, the english language is lacking, or at least my vocabulary is.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 2:17 PM, John Comfort <john at comfortconsulting.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> To state that women are underrepresented because the board currently has
>> no women is a misnomer and only perpetuates the political propaganda
>> without any substantive data to confirm the situation even exists.  If a
>> particular woman has the appropriate credentials and experience necessary
>> to become a member of the board, then there is no reason why she wouldn't
>> be elected except that a male or another female candidate has better
>> credentials and/or more relevant experience.
>>
>> The election requirements should be based on merit only.  Do not give
>> prejudicial treatment to any person whether male or female to further
>> external, irrelevant agendas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:58 AM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Jason and Rob, simply expanding the number of board seats
>> without some mechanism to ensure that the new seats actually expand
>> diversity is not helpful, and I can not support such a change.  I will note
>> it is theoretically possible that, the membership will fill the new Board
>> seats with a more diverse set of board members, but it is equally, if not
>> more, likely that they will not, and the board will look much as it does
>> today but slightly larger.  A slightly larger board that has more diversity
>> is a fair trade-off and I support such a change if it includes a mechanism
>> to ensure that the new seats actually expand diversity.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think a regional representation system would be helpful over all,
>> it wouldn't necessarily help increasing the number of women on the board,
>> and it would formalize a constituency for some board members that isn't the
>> whole membership, and I'm not sure that would be a healthy change either.
>>
>>
>>
>> As an alternative, I would propose that the board earmark the additional
>> seat in each class for candidates with particular divers properties that
>> are underrepresented on the board.  Currently, I see the most pressing lack
>> of diversity being women in general and anyone from the Caribbean.  So I
>> would propose that the extra seat for the 1st and 3rd class of broad
>> members be earmarked for women, and the extra seat in the 2nd class be
>> earmarked for someone from the Caribbean.  Overtime if the make up of the
>> board changes the earmarks could be changed to select candidates with other
>> divers properties or if in the future it is felt that sufficient diversity
>> can be maintained without earmarks, the earmarks could be eliminated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Under this proposal, there would be two(2) general seats with the current
>> qualifications, and one special diversity seat per class with the current
>> qualifications plus additional diversity qualifications specified by the
>> board, maybe with input from the community and/or the nomcom.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ===============================================
>> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>> Office of Information Technology
>> University of Minnesota
>> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815 <(612)%20626-0815>
>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952 <(612)%20812-9952>
>> ===============================================
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Consult
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
>> Consult Mailing
>> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
>> ARIN Member Services
>> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ===============================================
>> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>> Office of Information Technology
>> University of Minnesota
>> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815 <(612)%20626-0815>
>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952 <(612)%20812-9952>
>> ===============================================
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Consult
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
>> Consult Mailing
>> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
>> ARIN Member Services
>> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________________
> Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com|571-266-0006 <(571)%20266-0006>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
> ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
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From jcurran at arin.net  Wed Jun  7 18:29:06 2017
From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 22:29:06 +0000
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <22840.22345.914517.170498@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
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Message-ID: <F56E04BF-0A93-48B9-A304-4DD2CC54FA30@arin.net>

On 7 Jun 2017, at 12:43 PM, bzs at theworld.com wrote:
> 
> Reading over a lot of these comments my reaction is that what's
> missing, perhaps I missed it, is some research into how other
> organizations have dealt with this issue.
> 
> This isn't the first or only time this has arisen and the ability to
> reference other models or guidelines in any new policy would seem
> prudent.
> 
> For example the following comes up on a quick search:
> 
> National Council of Nonprofits
> Diversity on Nonprofit Boards
> 
> https://www.councilofnonprofits.org/tools-resources/diversity-nonprofit-boards
> 
> This page also includes several links to other resources on diversity
> and boards including for example:
> 
> Diversity and Inclusion Assessment
> 
>  https://boardsource.org/resources-solutions/assessing-performance/diversity-inclusion-assessment/
> 
> boardsource.org sells assessment materials but perhaps that's w/in
> reason, I know nothing else about them.

Barry - 
 
     Boardsource has quite a few materials that I?ve read on this subject
     (ARIN has a subscription and uses it to as a source of insight into 
     various topics), and as a result of your post, I?ve read the National
     Council of Non-profits document as the Russell Reynolds article.

     At this point, the Board is seeking input from the community, so if
     your review of these materials yields any specific thoughts, please
     post them here when you have a moment. 

Thanks!
/John 

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN

From 3johnl at gmail.com  Fri Jun  9 01:44:36 2017
From: 3johnl at gmail.com (John Springer)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 22:44:36 -0700
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the
 ARIN Board of Trustees
Message-ID: <CAJb_OSLvWEdXjLbPM+X0nq0RWH3ZS+KAzK3aXfK475r1-kCdmg@mail.gmail.com>

I am in favor of the proposal.

I have read this thread. No amount of quibbling changes the inequity of the
status quo.

The proposal is reasonable. It is unlikely that it is perfect, but it will
give us data. A little data is worth a dozen discussions of who is not to
be admitted and why proposals must be categorically rejected. If the ARIN
community decides that only white guys from the US or Canada are suitable
to be Trustees, that is a problem for another day.

It would also be good if candidates for BoT and AC make their views known.

Esteemed BoT members, I can feel you listening. Please don't be dissuaded
from taking action. Incremental change is good. Carefully take under
consideration all viewpoints, by all means be sure that fairness can be
assured and then do this, please.

John Springer
writing as a community member only
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From bill at herrin.us  Fri Jun  9 09:25:23 2017
From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 09:25:23 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAJb_OSLvWEdXjLbPM+X0nq0RWH3ZS+KAzK3aXfK475r1-kCdmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJb_OSLvWEdXjLbPM+X0nq0RWH3ZS+KAzK3aXfK475r1-kCdmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP-guGWd1y8N=7g+G47DGrjR=xXYfOcksbqRM8AVJpBy6d_L2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 1:44 AM, John Springer <3johnl at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have read this thread. No amount of quibbling changes the inequity of
> the status quo.
>
> The proposal is reasonable. It is unlikely that it is perfect, but it will
> give us data. A little data is worth a dozen discussions of who is not to
> be admitted and why proposals must be categorically rejected. If the ARIN
> community decides that only white guys from the US or Canada are suitable
> to be Trustees, that is a problem for another day.
>
> It would also be good if candidates for BoT and AC make their views known.
>
> Esteemed BoT members, I can feel you listening. Please don't be dissuaded
> from taking action. Incremental change is good. Carefully take under
> consideration all viewpoints, by all means be sure that fairness can be
> assured and then do this, please.
>
> John,

The TSA has offered no finer argument for taking useless and harmful action
in the name of a good cause. Theater, some call it. But I wouldn't want to
quibble.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


-- 
William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
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From mike at iptrading.com  Fri Jun  9 10:51:48 2017
From: mike at iptrading.com (Mike Burns)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 10:51:48 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAP-guGWd1y8N=7g+G47DGrjR=xXYfOcksbqRM8AVJpBy6d_L2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJb_OSLvWEdXjLbPM+X0nq0RWH3ZS+KAzK3aXfK475r1-kCdmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP-guGWd1y8N=7g+G47DGrjR=xXYfOcksbqRM8AVJpBy6d_L2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00cd01d2e12f$ec2b7830$c4826890$@iptrading.com>

I have read this thread. No amount of quibbling changes the inequity of the status quo.

 

The proposal is reasonable. It is unlikely that it is perfect, but it will give us data. A little data is worth a dozen discussions of who is not to be admitted and why proposals must be categorically rejected. If the ARIN community decides that only white guys from the US or Canada are suitable to be Trustees, that is a problem for another day.

 

It would also be good if candidates for BoT and AC make their views known.

 

Esteemed BoT members, I can feel you listening. Please don't be dissuaded from taking action. Incremental change is good. Carefully take under consideration all viewpoints, by all means be sure that fairness can be assured and then do this, please.

John,

The TSA has offered no finer argument for taking useless and harmful action in the name of a good cause. Theater, some call it. But I wouldn't want to quibble.

Regards,

Bill Herrin



Hi John and Bill,

 

I don?t think referring to prior mail lists postings as ?quibble? is appropriate, especially without directly addressing the arguments contained therein.

 

I also don?t think that having ARIN fundamentally change a principle of multi-stakeholder governance is ?incremental.?

 

One member, one unfettered vote. Anybody can stand for election before his or her peers.

Goodbye to those principles, but at least they are being jettisoned in order to deal with an overwhelming and unbearable problem, right?

 

ARIN is about number registration, not about defining groups of members and making them ?more equal? than other members.

Not about addressing society?s ills, or signaling virtue, or redressing wrongs, howevermuch each of us might wish to address those things.

It?s beyond our remit.  If the board is not functioning well, please provide evidence, or even anecdotes, heck, even hypotheticals.

 

If the community feels that the viewpoint of a certain gender or homeland or skill set is valuable, it is free to choose whomever it wants to meet that need.

I don?t know what could be ?assured? to be ?fairer? than that.

 

The questions I asked remain unanswered among the quibbling:

 

Who chooses what groups are preferred?

How are those groups defined?

Who verifies inclusion in the groups?

What prevents the proliferation of defined groups?

 

Any single one of those questions can only be answered with hours and hours of fraught debate and rulemaking. How can the Board make this decision without beforehand clearly answering the questions above?

 

Considering that the issues presented to the Board relate *only to the registration of numbers*, and that no evidence has been forthcoming that indicates the Board?s decisions have suffered from lack of diversity, what is the scope of the problem that would justify up-ending the principles of multi-stakeholderism?

 

Regards,

Mike

 

 

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From spiffnolee at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  9 11:52:58 2017
From: spiffnolee at yahoo.com (Lee Howard)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 15:52:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <00cd01d2e12f$ec2b7830$c4826890$@iptrading.com>
References: <CAJb_OSLvWEdXjLbPM+X0nq0RWH3ZS+KAzK3aXfK475r1-kCdmg@mail.gmail.com>
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 <00cd01d2e12f$ec2b7830$c4826890$@iptrading.com>
Message-ID: <702416497.5496161.1497023578348@mail.yahoo.com>



      From: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
 To: 'William Herrin' <bill at herrin.us>; 'John Springer' <3johnl at gmail.com> 
Cc: arin-consult at arin.net
 Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 10:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees
   
#yiv7790912284 #yiv7790912284 -- _filtered #yiv7790912284 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7790912284 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7790912284 #yiv7790912284 p.yiv7790912284MsoNormal, #yiv7790912284 li.yiv7790912284MsoNormal, #yiv7790912284 div.yiv7790912284MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7790912284 a:link, #yiv7790912284 span.yiv7790912284MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7790912284 a:visited, #yiv7790912284 span.yiv7790912284MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7790912284 p.yiv7790912284msonormal0, #yiv7790912284 li.yiv7790912284msonormal0, #yiv7790912284 div.yiv7790912284msonormal0 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv7790912284 span.yiv7790912284EmailStyle18 {color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}#yiv7790912284 .yiv7790912284MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7790912284 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv7790912284 div.yiv7790912284WordSection1 {}#yiv7790912284 
> ARIN is about number registration, not about defining groups of members and making them ?more equal? than other members.
Board of Trustees

  
|  
|   
|   
|   |    |

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
Board of Trustees
 ARIN Board of Trustees  |   |

  |

  |

 
Well, middle-aged white men certainly seem to be well-represented on the Board. Disproportionately, given the demographics of meeting attendees; the AC is more demographically representative.
Large ISPs, content providers, and CDNs are completely unrepresented.
Rural and Caribbean ISPs are unrepresented.Address market participants are, as far as I can tell, unrepresented.

So, "middle-aged white men who can afford to spend several hours a week and a couple weeks a year not doing a day job" seems to be the primary representation. I would venture to say that that group is not "more equal" than others.

> If the community feels that the viewpoint of a certain gender or homeland or skill set is valuable, it is free to choose 
> whomever it wants to meet that need.> I don?t know what could be ?assured? to be ?fairer? than that.? 
It's called "the tyranny of the majority."
Even weirder than that, although I couldn't find a breakdown of members by country, I wonder whether Canada is disproportionately represented: 3 of 6 elected Board Members are Canadian. 
If Americans distribute their votes among candidates but Canadians tend to vote for their clan, you get disproportionate representation. Whereas Caribbean members have a hard time finding someone to nominate (who can spare time from a day job), and may not have enough members that voting en bloc seats a Board member.

> Who chooses what groups are preferred?
The members. Right now they prefer "rich white guys."
I apologize to any Board members who do not identify as "rich," but you *do* have the flexibility to spend time on ARIN rather than on your day job, and you are all senior executives.I also recognize Merike, who is a Board member, and whose presence does not invalidate my point about voting patterns.

> How are those groups defined?
By the set of people nominated and forwarded by the NomCom. 

> Who verifies inclusion in the groups?
I'm making assumptions based on the group photo and bios of the Board on ARIN's site. John used to work for a large ISP, but that was a long time ago, and he is not elected.

> What prevents the proliferation of defined groups?? 
I pointed out potential voting patterns above.
> Any single one of those questions can only be answered with hours and hours of fraught debate and rulemaking. 
> How can the Board make this decision without beforehand clearly answering the questions above?? 
Funny, I did it in ten minutes of writing an email.
> Considering that the issues presented to the Board relate *only to the registration of numbers*, and that no 
> evidence has been forthcoming that indicates the Board?s decisions have suffered from lack of diversity, what 
> is the scope of the problem that would justify up-ending the principles of multi-stakeholderism?? 
Leaving aside the rest of the political issues associated with "Internet governance" (and we shouldn't leave them aside), we have a Board that makes decisions about the AC's consensus judgments, fees, contracts, strategy, and budgets, based at best on information provided by the staff and the community, and not from personal knowledge. An advocate of an position is a better advocate if they have experience with the issue, and weaker if they only have second-hand knowledge.

So far in this consultation, I have not actually expressed a position to the Board, but writing this convinced me I should:I believe the Board does need greater diversity. Reserved seats (AfriNIC-style) might accomplish that. Annual diversity training for the NomCom might help. I don't have other suggestions, but I'm glad the Board is thinking about this.
Lee


   
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From mike at iptrading.com  Fri Jun  9 13:11:29 2017
From: mike at iptrading.com (Mike Burns)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 13:11:29 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <702416497.5496161.1497023578348@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAJb_OSLvWEdXjLbPM+X0nq0RWH3ZS+KAzK3aXfK475r1-kCdmg@mail.gmail.com>
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 <00cd01d2e12f$ec2b7830$c4826890$@iptrading.com>
 <702416497.5496161.1497023578348@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <013701d2e143$6f5007e0$4df017a0$@iptrading.com>

Hi Lee,

 

Thanks for the response.

 

As far as I can see, diabetics like me are not found on the Board.

Nor is anybody evidently physically challenged, I see no wheelchairs for example.

Nobody is deaf. No redheads either.

 

You most pointedly did not answer my questions, let me try them again.

 

Who is to be included in the preferred groups? 

Here is Lee?s ?answer?:

 

>The members. Right now they prefer "rich white guys."
>I apologize to any Board members who do not identify as "rich," but you *do* have the flexibility to spend time on ARIN rather than on your day job, and you are all senior executives.

>I also recognize Merike, who is a Board member, and whose presence does not invalidate my point about voting patterns.



 

Sorry Lee, that is not the answer to my question. The ?preferred groups? are the ones for whom a seat is reserved.

But your answer does beg the question of whether we should include the poor in the preferred groups?

My question relates to defining who belongs to what groups, after the groups themselves are chosen.

For example, any group you define really represents a spectrum, and where do we define the edges of that spectrum?

If it?s women, is a personal identification as a woman enough, or do we need blood tests like the Olympics?

If it?s homeland, do you have to be a citizen, or can you have a second-home in your ?homeland??

If it?s experience, who judges whether the experience meets the bar?

If it?s nationality, what about dual-nationals?

 

Who chooses the preferred groups?

Here is Lee?s ?answer?:

 

>The members. Right now they prefer "rich white guys."

 

Voting members chose the current board, no seats were reserved for them, thus none is in a preferred group.

But you say the members choose the preferred groups. How do the members choose which groups they prefer? Can we vote on it?

That?s the 800lb gorilla of my questions, you have not provided an answer.

 

 

Who verifies inclusion in the groups?





>I'm making assumptions based on the group photo and bios of the Board on ARIN's site. John used to work for a large ISP, but that was a long time ago, and he is not elected.



Sorry, Lee, making assumptions based on photos is not verifying inclusion. Is Caitlyn Jenner eligible for the woman?s seat? How long must a candidate live in the Caribbean before that is his homeland? How do we verify if somebody is poor, or is black, or is physically challenged? Whose job is this verification, when does it occur, and to whom can decisions be appealed, under what processes? 

 

 

Sorry but you did not answer a single one of my questions. Not a one.

And thinking it could be done by any group of people in any short time is unrealistic.

 

I hope the board has the foresight to look at the myriad of issues which will be inevitably raised by embarking on a road that diverges widely from the path of the responsible stewardship of number resources, and instead chooses to engage in social engineering, tilting at windmills unrelated to registering number resources, and sowing division in the community.

 

Who among us can decide whether it?s more important that we have a representative from a large ISP or a representative with a vagina? Shouldn?t that be something left to each individual member to decide?  Any further steps in this direction removes that ability from the voter and lodges it where? With whom? With the Board which we are assuming is hampered in its own decision-making due to the whiteness, maleness, or Canadian-ness of its members?

 

Regards,

Mike

 

 

 

 

From: Lee Howard [mailto:spiffnolee at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2017 11:53 AM
To: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>; 'William Herrin' <bill at herrin.us>; 'John Springer' <3johnl at gmail.com>
Cc: arin-consult at arin.net
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees

 

 

  _____  

From: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com <mailto:mike at iptrading.com> >
To: 'William Herrin' <bill at herrin.us <mailto:bill at herrin.us> >; 'John Springer' <3johnl at gmail.com <mailto:3johnl at gmail.com> > 
Cc: arin-consult at arin.net <mailto:arin-consult at arin.net> 
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees

 

 

> ARIN is about number registration, not about defining groups of members and making them ?more equal? than other members.

 

Board of Trustees <https://www.arin.net/about_us/bot.html> 



 



 






	

Board of Trustees


ARIN Board of Trustees

	

 

Well, middle-aged white men certainly seem to be well-represented on the Board. Disproportionately, given the demographics of meeting attendees; the AC is more demographically representative.



Large ISPs, content providers, and CDNs are completely unrepresented.



Rural and Caribbean ISPs are unrepresented.

Address market participants are, as far as I can tell, unrepresented.



 

So, "middle-aged white men who can afford to spend several hours a week and a couple weeks a year not doing a day job" seems to be the primary representation. I would venture to say that that group is not "more equal" than others.



 

> If the community feels that the viewpoint of a certain gender or homeland or skill set is valuable, it is free to choose 



> whomever it wants to meet that need.

> I don?t know what could be ?assured? to be ?fairer? than that.

  

It's called "the tyranny of the majority."

Even weirder than that, although I couldn't find a breakdown of members by country, I wonder whether Canada is disproportionately represented: 3 of 6 elected Board Members are Canadian. 



If Americans distribute their votes among candidates but Canadians tend to vote for their clan, you get disproportionate representation. Whereas Caribbean members have a hard time finding someone to nominate (who can spare time from a day job), and may not have enough members that voting en bloc seats a Board member.



 

> Who chooses what groups are preferred?

 

The members. Right now they prefer "rich white guys."



I apologize to any Board members who do not identify as "rich," but you *do* have the flexibility to spend time on ARIN rather than on your day job, and you are all senior executives.

I also recognize Merike, who is a Board member, and whose presence does not invalidate my point about voting patterns.







> How are those groups defined?

 

By the set of people nominated and forwarded by the NomCom. 



 

> Who verifies inclusion in the groups?





I'm making assumptions based on the group photo and bios of the Board on ARIN's site. John used to work for a large ISP, but that was a long time ago, and he is not elected.







> What prevents the proliferation of defined groups?

  

I pointed out potential voting patterns above.

 

> Any single one of those questions can only be answered with hours and hours of fraught debate and rulemaking. 



> How can the Board make this decision without beforehand clearly answering the questions above?

  

Funny, I did it in ten minutes of writing an email.

 

> Considering that the issues presented to the Board relate *only to the registration of numbers*, and that no 



> evidence has been forthcoming that indicates the Board?s decisions have suffered from lack of diversity, what 



> is the scope of the problem that would justify up-ending the principles of multi-stakeholderism?

  

Leaving aside the rest of the political issues associated with "Internet governance" (and we shouldn't leave them aside), we have a Board that makes decisions about the AC's consensus judgments, fees, contracts, strategy, and budgets, based at best on information provided by the staff and the community, and not from personal knowledge. An advocate of an position is a better advocate if they have experience with the issue, and weaker if they only have second-hand knowledge.



 

So far in this consultation, I have not actually expressed a position to the Board, but writing this convinced me I should:

I believe the Board does need greater diversity. Reserved seats (AfriNIC-style) might accomplish that. Annual diversity training for the NomCom might help. I don't have other suggestions, but I'm glad the Board is thinking about this.





Lee





 

 

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From bill at herrin.us  Fri Jun  9 14:50:56 2017
From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 14:50:56 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <013701d2e143$6f5007e0$4df017a0$@iptrading.com>
References: <CAJb_OSLvWEdXjLbPM+X0nq0RWH3ZS+KAzK3aXfK475r1-kCdmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP-guGWd1y8N=7g+G47DGrjR=xXYfOcksbqRM8AVJpBy6d_L2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <00cd01d2e12f$ec2b7830$c4826890$@iptrading.com>
 <702416497.5496161.1497023578348@mail.yahoo.com>
 <013701d2e143$6f5007e0$4df017a0$@iptrading.com>
Message-ID: <CAP-guGXw6WtByNq78JhXofXODN+t9W45VGhQJ-ky+KzcA9aDOg@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> > whomever it wants to meet that need.
>
> > I don?t know what could be ?assured? to be ?fairer? than that.
>
>
>
> It's called "the tyranny of the majority."
>
> Even weirder than that, although I couldn't find a breakdown of members by
> country, I wonder whether Canada is disproportionately represented: 3 of 6
> elected Board Members are Canadian.
>

Hi,

Not sure if it's Mike or Lee talking there, but on your way to that query
you made a classic ass-u-me. ARIN members by country? Members? Does ARIN
manage IP addresses in trust for the members? Why not the general
population of the region served? Or the Internet-connected device owners
within the region served? Or the ARIN registrants?

I'm here to tell you that the diversity among ARIN's membership is much
smaller than the diversity among ARIN registrants which in turn is much
smaller than the diversity among owners of Internet-connected devices.
Which diversity would you have the board reflect?

By the general population measure, Canada is grossly overrepresented on the
Board. They have nearly an order of magnitude more representation than they
should have.

The whole concept of diversity here is fraught with pitfalls. That's OK, if
we decide diversity is valuable we can hash it out. But we're talking about
expanding the board as a specific measure in support of a diversity we
haven't successfully defined. IMO that puts the cart so far ahead of the
horse that it can't even see the horse any more.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


-- 
William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
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From 3johnl at gmail.com  Fri Jun  9 18:45:49 2017
From: 3johnl at gmail.com (John Springer)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 15:45:49 -0700
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAP-guGXw6WtByNq78JhXofXODN+t9W45VGhQJ-ky+KzcA9aDOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJb_OSLvWEdXjLbPM+X0nq0RWH3ZS+KAzK3aXfK475r1-kCdmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP-guGWd1y8N=7g+G47DGrjR=xXYfOcksbqRM8AVJpBy6d_L2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <00cd01d2e12f$ec2b7830$c4826890$@iptrading.com>
 <702416497.5496161.1497023578348@mail.yahoo.com>
 <013701d2e143$6f5007e0$4df017a0$@iptrading.com>
 <CAP-guGXw6WtByNq78JhXofXODN+t9W45VGhQJ-ky+KzcA9aDOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJb_OSL83v+kuaXNn1ajzdyed_0VqDrNadFuLQH_+Dp6nZisAw@mail.gmail.com>

Enough of the objections to the proposal rely on the notion that diversity
is bad until proven good that I feel I can avoid much reduction in detail
simply by disagreeing with that.

I hope the BoT won't be distracted by this notion. I feel that diversity's
worth is self evident. I think this proposal is a step in the right
direction. I understand that not all feel the same.

John Springer

On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 11:50 AM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> wrote:

>
>> > whomever it wants to meet that need.
>>
>> > I don?t know what could be ?assured? to be ?fairer? than that.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's called "the tyranny of the majority."
>>
>> Even weirder than that, although I couldn't find a breakdown of members
>> by country, I wonder whether Canada is disproportionately represented: 3 of
>> 6 elected Board Members are Canadian.
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> Not sure if it's Mike or Lee talking there, but on your way to that query
> you made a classic ass-u-me. ARIN members by country? Members? Does ARIN
> manage IP addresses in trust for the members? Why not the general
> population of the region served? Or the Internet-connected device owners
> within the region served? Or the ARIN registrants?
>
> I'm here to tell you that the diversity among ARIN's membership is much
> smaller than the diversity among ARIN registrants which in turn is much
> smaller than the diversity among owners of Internet-connected devices.
> Which diversity would you have the board reflect?
>
> By the general population measure, Canada is grossly overrepresented on
> the Board. They have nearly an order of magnitude more representation than
> they should have.
>
> The whole concept of diversity here is fraught with pitfalls. That's OK,
> if we decide diversity is valuable we can hash it out. But we're talking
> about expanding the board as a specific measure in support of a diversity
> we haven't successfully defined. IMO that puts the cart so far ahead of the
> horse that it can't even see the horse any more.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
>
>
> --
> William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
> Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
>
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From bill at herrin.us  Fri Jun  9 18:51:11 2017
From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 18:51:11 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAJb_OSL83v+kuaXNn1ajzdyed_0VqDrNadFuLQH_+Dp6nZisAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJb_OSLvWEdXjLbPM+X0nq0RWH3ZS+KAzK3aXfK475r1-kCdmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP-guGWd1y8N=7g+G47DGrjR=xXYfOcksbqRM8AVJpBy6d_L2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <00cd01d2e12f$ec2b7830$c4826890$@iptrading.com>
 <702416497.5496161.1497023578348@mail.yahoo.com>
 <013701d2e143$6f5007e0$4df017a0$@iptrading.com>
 <CAP-guGXw6WtByNq78JhXofXODN+t9W45VGhQJ-ky+KzcA9aDOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJb_OSL83v+kuaXNn1ajzdyed_0VqDrNadFuLQH_+Dp6nZisAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP-guGXgbzb4M-UW8hw411e_S5HPpr4VMXm8y0A5XGfTHH=Yfg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 6:45 PM, John Springer <3johnl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Enough of the objections to the proposal rely on the notion that diversity
> is bad until proven good
>

Hi John,

I hope you don't mean my objections because if you do then you haven't
understood a thing I've written.

Regards,
Bill



> that I feel I can avoid much reduction in detail simply by disagreeing
> with that.
>
> I hope the BoT won't be distracted by this notion. I feel that diversity's
> worth is self evident. I think this proposal is a step in the right
> direction. I understand that not all feel the same.
>
> John Springer
>
> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 11:50 AM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> wrote:
>
>>
>>> > whomever it wants to meet that need.
>>>
>>> > I don?t know what could be ?assured? to be ?fairer? than that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's called "the tyranny of the majority."
>>>
>>> Even weirder than that, although I couldn't find a breakdown of members
>>> by country, I wonder whether Canada is disproportionately represented: 3 of
>>> 6 elected Board Members are Canadian.
>>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Not sure if it's Mike or Lee talking there, but on your way to that query
>> you made a classic ass-u-me. ARIN members by country? Members? Does ARIN
>> manage IP addresses in trust for the members? Why not the general
>> population of the region served? Or the Internet-connected device owners
>> within the region served? Or the ARIN registrants?
>>
>> I'm here to tell you that the diversity among ARIN's membership is much
>> smaller than the diversity among ARIN registrants which in turn is much
>> smaller than the diversity among owners of Internet-connected devices.
>> Which diversity would you have the board reflect?
>>
>> By the general population measure, Canada is grossly overrepresented on
>> the Board. They have nearly an order of magnitude more representation than
>> they should have.
>>
>> The whole concept of diversity here is fraught with pitfalls. That's OK,
>> if we decide diversity is valuable we can hash it out. But we're talking
>> about expanding the board as a specific measure in support of a diversity
>> we haven't successfully defined. IMO that puts the cart so far ahead of the
>> horse that it can't even see the horse any more.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bill Herrin
>>
>>
>> --
>> William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
>> Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
> ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>



-- 
William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
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From john at comfortconsulting.com  Fri Jun  9 19:17:18 2017
From: john at comfortconsulting.com (John Comfort)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 16:17:18 -0700
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAP-guGXgbzb4M-UW8hw411e_S5HPpr4VMXm8y0A5XGfTHH=Yfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJb_OSLvWEdXjLbPM+X0nq0RWH3ZS+KAzK3aXfK475r1-kCdmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP-guGWd1y8N=7g+G47DGrjR=xXYfOcksbqRM8AVJpBy6d_L2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <00cd01d2e12f$ec2b7830$c4826890$@iptrading.com>
 <702416497.5496161.1497023578348@mail.yahoo.com>
 <013701d2e143$6f5007e0$4df017a0$@iptrading.com>
 <CAP-guGXw6WtByNq78JhXofXODN+t9W45VGhQJ-ky+KzcA9aDOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJb_OSL83v+kuaXNn1ajzdyed_0VqDrNadFuLQH_+Dp6nZisAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP-guGXgbzb4M-UW8hw411e_S5HPpr4VMXm8y0A5XGfTHH=Yfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALFvOQNYccJcrFwWfVqwD7csF90i5P2j02LFeyXkZWMYqndK-g@mail.gmail.com>

John Springer, lack of evidence doesn't equate to self-evidence.  The
self-evidence of Diversity is that is is a political agenda antithetical to
a free and open market.  Mike and Bill have asked for evidence, to which
you have not provided.

Opening up the board to additional members for diversity of *opinion* is
one thing.  But political Diversity, to which you speak of, is a communist
ideal injecting subjectivity into objectivity based on socio-economic
characteristics, not on merit.

Are you postulating that the current board are racists bigots in need of
repair?

John




On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 3:51 PM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 6:45 PM, John Springer <3johnl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Enough of the objections to the proposal rely on the notion that
>> diversity is bad until proven good
>>
>
> Hi John,
>
> I hope you don't mean my objections because if you do then you haven't
> understood a thing I've written.
>
> Regards,
> Bill
>
>
>
>> that I feel I can avoid much reduction in detail simply by disagreeing
>> with that.
>>
>> I hope the BoT won't be distracted by this notion. I feel that
>> diversity's worth is self evident. I think this proposal is a step in the
>> right direction. I understand that not all feel the same.
>>
>> John Springer
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 11:50 AM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> > whomever it wants to meet that need.
>>>>
>>>> > I don?t know what could be ?assured? to be ?fairer? than that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's called "the tyranny of the majority."
>>>>
>>>> Even weirder than that, although I couldn't find a breakdown of members
>>>> by country, I wonder whether Canada is disproportionately represented: 3 of
>>>> 6 elected Board Members are Canadian.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Not sure if it's Mike or Lee talking there, but on your way to that
>>> query you made a classic ass-u-me. ARIN members by country? Members? Does
>>> ARIN manage IP addresses in trust for the members? Why not the general
>>> population of the region served? Or the Internet-connected device owners
>>> within the region served? Or the ARIN registrants?
>>>
>>> I'm here to tell you that the diversity among ARIN's membership is much
>>> smaller than the diversity among ARIN registrants which in turn is much
>>> smaller than the diversity among owners of Internet-connected devices.
>>> Which diversity would you have the board reflect?
>>>
>>> By the general population measure, Canada is grossly overrepresented on
>>> the Board. They have nearly an order of magnitude more representation than
>>> they should have.
>>>
>>> The whole concept of diversity here is fraught with pitfalls. That's OK,
>>> if we decide diversity is valuable we can hash it out. But we're talking
>>> about expanding the board as a specific measure in support of a diversity
>>> we haven't successfully defined. IMO that puts the cart so far ahead of the
>>> horse that it can't even see the horse any more.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Bill Herrin
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
>>> Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-Consult
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
>> Consult Mailing
>> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
>> ARIN Member Services
>> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
> Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
> ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
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From mike at sum.net  Sat Jun 10 09:37:39 2017
From: mike at sum.net (Mike Burns)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:37:39 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
Message-ID: <aced72ea5b6d4b2588df509fb99e1e65.mike@sum.net>


Re the self-evidence that diversity is good, from the seminal work Bowling Alone, written by Harvard professor Richard Putnam:
"The follow-up (2007) US study to Bowling Alone has also stimulated debate. The first findings from the study found that, in the short run, immigration and ethnic diversity tended to reduce social solidarity and social capital. In ethnically diverse neighborhoods residents of all races tend to ?hunker down?.   
Diversity does not produce ?bad race relations? or ethnically-defined group hostility, rather, inhabitants of diverse communities tend to withdraw from collective life, to distrust their neighbors, to volunteer less, give less to charity and work on community projects less often, to register to vote less, to agitate for social reform more, but have less faith that they can actually make a difference, and to watch more television.  Diversity, at least in the short run, seems to bring out the turtle in all of us."
Mr. Putnam, after much research, came to the conclusion that greater diversity leads to lower levels of civic trust, and lower levels of social interaction, volunteering, money-lending, and civic participation, the salient point here.He delayed publishing his book for several years as he took time to "develop proposals to compensate for the negative effects of diversity".In other words, he sought to find a way out of the plain facts of his research, but the facts were not really disputable.
Mr. Putnam's research spanned decades, and included thousands of interviews and  years of data collection from an array of sources, and he did not reach the (self-evident?!) conclusion that diversity is good, although his conclusions pained him.
This proposal seems to rest on the "fact" that gender, regional, and other group diversity is BY DEFINITION a good thing, or the lack of group diversity is BY DEFINITION a bad thing.
I oppose the proposal because it seeks a rupture in foundational governmental principles that could be a BAD THING and we have no evidence of any problems with Board decisions that should lead us to take that risk.Pace Mr. Springer, I am not saying diversity is bad until proven good, that is a red herring. I am saying diversity in general might be good, and it might be bad, but  there is no reason for stewards to move in that direction via quotas or other voter restrictions, unless there is a problem.I have asked for evidence that lack of diversity has caused problems, and have heard no evidenced proffered, nor even a hypothetical situation in which the lack of diversity is a problem, or where more diversity would be a solution.That is because we are constrained to the world of number registration, and I find it hard to see where a different gender or racial perspective on this small context will yield a change in decision. 
Putting on my engineers hat, again, I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
Regards,Mike





------- Original Message -------
>From    : John Springer[mailto:3johnl at gmail.com]
Sent    : 6/9/2017 6:45:49 PM
To      : arin-consult at arin.net
Cc      : 
Subject : RE: Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees

 Enough of the objections to the proposal rely on the notion that diversity is bad until proven good that I feel I can avoid much reduction in detail simply by disagreeing with that.

I hope the BoT won't be distracted by this notion. I feel that diversity's worth is self evident. I think this proposal is a step in the right direction. I understand that not all feel the same.

John Springer
On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 11:50 AM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> wrote:

> whomever it wants to meet that need.> I don?t know what could be ?assured? to be ?fairer? than that.  It's called "the tyranny of the majority."Even weirder than that, although I couldn't find a breakdown of members by country, I wonder whether Canada is disproportionately represented: 3 of 6 elected Board Members are Canadian. 

Hi,
Not sure if it's Mike or Lee talking there, but on your way to that query you made a classic ass-u-me. ARIN members by country? Members? Does ARIN manage IP addresses in trust for the members? Why not the general population of the region served? Or the Internet-connected device owners within the region served? Or the ARIN registrants?
I'm here to tell you that the diversity among ARIN's membership is much smaller than the diversity among ARIN registrants which in turn is much smaller than the diversity among owners of Internet-connected devices. Which diversity would you have the board reflect?
By the general population measure, Canada is grossly overrepresented on the Board. They have nearly an order of magnitude more representation than they should have.
The whole concept of diversity here is fraught with pitfalls. That's OK, if we decide diversity is valuable we can hash it out. But we're talking about expanding the board as a specific measure in support of a diversity we haven't successfully defined. IMO that puts the cart so far ahead of the horse that it can't even see the horse any more.
Regards,Bill Herrin
-- 
William Herrin ............... herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>





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From scottleibrand at gmail.com  Sat Jun 10 11:25:27 2017
From: scottleibrand at gmail.com (Scott Leibrand)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:25:27 -0700
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <aced72ea5b6d4b2588df509fb99e1e65.mike@sum.net>
References: <aced72ea5b6d4b2588df509fb99e1e65.mike@sum.net>
Message-ID: <70CD73F9-6C99-4398-AB1D-D99DD05E5D74@gmail.com>

Are you arguing against the subject of this email thread and consultation? Or against some other proposal (for quotas or similar) that has been discussed as a counter-proposal to just increasing the Board size?

Scott

> On Jun 10, 2017, at 6:37 AM, Mike Burns <mike at sum.net> wrote:
> 
> Re the self-evidence that diversity is good, from the seminal work Bowling Alone, written by Harvard professor Richard Putnam:
> 
> "The follow-up (2007) US study to Bowling Alone has also stimulated debate. The first findings from the study found that, in the short run, immigration and ethnic diversity tended to reduce social solidarity and social capital. In ethnically diverse neighborhoods residents of all races tend to ?hunker down?.   
> Diversity does not produce ?bad race relations? or ethnically-defined group hostility, rather, inhabitants of diverse communities tend to withdraw from collective life, to distrust their neighbors, to volunteer less, give less to charity and work on community projects less often, to register to vote less, to agitate for social reform more, but have less faith that they can actually make a difference, and to watch more television.  Diversity, at least in the short run, seems to bring out the turtle in all of us."
> 
> Mr. Putnam, after much research, came to the conclusion that greater diversity leads to lower levels of civic trust, and lower levels of social interaction, volunteering, money-lending, and civic participation, the salient point here.
> He delayed publishing his book for several years as he took time to "develop proposals to compensate for the negative effects of diversity".
> In other words, he sought to find a way out of the plain facts of his research, but the facts were not really disputable.
> 
> Mr. Putnam's research spanned decades, and included thousands of interviews and  years of data collection from an array of sources, and he did not reach the (self-evident?!) conclusion that diversity is good, although his conclusions pained him.
> 
> This proposal seems to rest on the "fact" that gender, regional, and other group diversity is BY DEFINITION a good thing, or the lack of group diversity is BY DEFINITION a bad thing.
> 
> I oppose the proposal because it seeks a rupture in foundational governmental principles that could be a BAD THING and we have no evidence of any problems with Board decisions that should lead us to take that risk.
> Pace Mr. Springer, I am not saying diversity is bad until proven good, that is a red herring. I am saying diversity in general might be good, and it might be bad, but  there is no reason for stewards to move in that direction via quotas or other voter restrictions, unless there is a problem.
> I have asked for evidence that lack of diversity has caused problems, and have heard no evidenced proffered, nor even a hypothetical situation in which the lack of diversity is a problem, or where more diversity would be a solution.
> That is because we are constrained to the world of number registration, and I find it hard to see where a different gender or racial perspective on this small context will yield a change in decision.
> 
> Putting on my engineers hat, again, I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
> 
> Regards,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------- Original Message -------
> From : John Springer[mailto:3johnl at gmail.com]
> Sent : 6/9/2017 6:45:49 PM
> To : arin-consult at arin.net
> Cc : 
> Subject : RE: Re: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees
> 
> Enough of the objections to the proposal rely on the notion that diversity is bad until proven good that I feel I can avoid much reduction in detail simply by disagreeing with that.
> 
> I hope the BoT won't be distracted by this notion. I feel that diversity's worth is self evident. I think this proposal is a step in the right direction. I understand that not all feel the same.
> 
> John Springer
> 
> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 11:50 AM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> wrote:
>>> 
>>> > whomever it wants to meet that need.
>>> 
>>> > I don?t know what could be ?assured? to be ?fairer? than that.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> It's called "the tyranny of the majority."
>>> 
>>> Even weirder than that, although I couldn't find a breakdown of members by country, I wonder whether Canada is disproportionately represented: 3 of 6 elected Board Members are Canadian. 
>>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Not sure if it's Mike or Lee talking there, but on your way to that query you made a classic ass-u-me. ARIN members by country? Members? Does ARIN manage IP addresses in trust for the members? Why not the general population of the region served? Or the Internet-connected device owners within the region served? Or the ARIN registrants?
>> 
>> I'm here to tell you that the diversity among ARIN's membership is much smaller than the diversity among ARIN registrants which in turn is much smaller than the diversity among owners of Internet-connected devices. Which diversity would you have the board reflect?
>> 
>> By the general population measure, Canada is grossly overrepresented on the Board. They have nearly an order of magnitude more representation than they should have.
>> 
>> The whole concept of diversity here is fraught with pitfalls. That's OK, if we decide diversity is valuable we can hash it out. But we're talking about expanding the board as a specific measure in support of a diversity we haven't successfully defined. IMO that puts the cart so far ahead of the horse that it can't even see the horse any more.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Bill Herrin
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> William Herrin ............... herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
>> Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
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From spiffnolee at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 12 13:44:22 2017
From: spiffnolee at yahoo.com (Lee Howard)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 17:44:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <013701d2e143$6f5007e0$4df017a0$@iptrading.com>
References: <CAJb_OSLvWEdXjLbPM+X0nq0RWH3ZS+KAzK3aXfK475r1-kCdmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP-guGWd1y8N=7g+G47DGrjR=xXYfOcksbqRM8AVJpBy6d_L2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <00cd01d2e12f$ec2b7830$c4826890$@iptrading.com>
 <702416497.5496161.1497023578348@mail.yahoo.com>
 <013701d2e143$6f5007e0$4df017a0$@iptrading.com>
Message-ID: <1021735832.7575291.1497289462488@mail.yahoo.com>



      From: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
 To: 'Lee Howard' <spiffnolee at yahoo.com>; 'William Herrin' <bill at herrin.us>; 'John Springer' <3johnl at gmail.com> 
Cc: arin-consult at arin.net
 Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 1:11 PM
 Subject: RE: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of the ARIN Board of Trustees
   
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> You most pointedly did not answer my questions, let me try them again.? 
I didn't think they were good questions.

> Who is to be included in the preferred groups? 
What preferred groups? The current consultation is about increasing the Board size.
>>The members. Right now they prefer "rich white guys."
 
> Sorry Lee, that is not the answer to my question. The ?preferred groups? are the ones for whom a seat is reserved.> But your answer does beg the question of whether we should include the poor in the preferred groups?> My question relates to defining who belongs to what groups, after the groups themselves are chosen.> For example, any group you define really represents a spectrum, and where do we define the edges of that spectrum?> If it?s women, is a personal identification as a woman enough, or do we need blood tests like the Olympics?> If it?s homeland, do you have to be a citizen, or can you have a second-home in your ?homeland??> If it?s experience, who judges whether the experience meets the bar?> If it?s nationality, what about dual-nationals?? 
These are fair questions to ask when considering reserved Board seats. However, any reasonable answer to them is fine. There are several ways to decide how to define them. If this is the direction ARIN went, it would not be the first organization to do so.


> Who verifies inclusion in the groups?
>> I'm making assumptions based on the group photo and bios of the Board on ARIN's site. John used to work for a large 
>> ISP, but that was a long time ago, and he is not elected.

> Sorry, Lee, making assumptions based on photos is not verifying inclusion. 

Okay, I stretched the truth a bit. I know most of them well.

> Is Caitlyn Jenner eligible for the woman?s seat? How long must a candidate live in the Caribbean before that 
> is his homeland? How do we verify if somebody is poor, or is black, or is physically challenged? Whose job 
> is this verification, when does it occur, and to whom can decisions be appealed, under what processes?  ?Again, these questions would need to be resolved if we pursued this, but the answers probably won't change my opinion.
 
> Who among us can decide whether it?s more important that we have a representative from a large ISP or a 
> representative with a vagina? Shouldn?t that be something left to each individual member to decide?? Any 
> further steps in this direction removes that ability from the voter and lodges it where? With whom? With the 
> Board which we are assuming is hampered in its own decision-making due to the whiteness, maleness, or 
> Canadian-ness of its members?? 
I pointed out earlier in this Community Consultation that generally, voting decisions are made individually. That is, one looks at the list of candidates and ranks them and votes for the top two. My perception, which could be wrong, is that people don't generally consider who would bring more breadth to the Board. Having six people with nearly identical experience leaves (or would leave) the Board without experience in other areas.

Simply adding seats probably doesn't change that, though.

Lee

   
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From susannah.gray at gmail.com  Mon Jun 12 22:21:00 2017
From: susannah.gray at gmail.com (Susannah Gray)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 19:21:00 -0700
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5bff5549-1a93-7837-ad01-d08d41801010@gmail.com>

Hi all,


On 02/06/2017 07:39, Jason Schiller wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com 
> <mailto:rs at seastrom.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I am neither in favor of nor opposed to the restrictions/carve-outs 
> that Jason suggests,
> > but will observe that they may be one effective tool among many that 
> the Board or NomCom
> > may bring to bear.
>
> For the record,I am neither in favor nor opposed to the specific 
> restrictions/carve-outs that
> I suggested.  I am strongly in favor of adding new Board seats if they 
> have some sort of
> restrictions/carve-outs.  I gave some examples that came to mind to 
> spur discussion about
> the general need for some specific restrictions/carve-outs and hope 
> the discussion will shift
> to what restrictions would be desired prior to deciding to enlarge the 
> board.
>
> I thank RS for pointing out that there are other ways to address 
> diversity such as the fellowship.

As I understand it, the domicile restrictions for the Fellowship Program 
have been removed and the number of available places on the program have 
been increased in order to encourage more participation from typically 
under-represented regions.

Similarly, the Women's Lunches that now take place during the ARIN 
Meetings help female attendees learn more about the other women in the 
community as well as how to participate in ARIN in an informal environment.

Regarding the idea to increase the number of seats on the Board, I agree 
that we should strive for more diversity on the Board. I also agree, 
however, with several of the other responses that unless seats are 
specifically designated as a 'Caribbean Regional Seat' or 'Female 
Representative Seat', diversity cannot be guaranteed and most likely the 
status quo will prevail.

Further, as one of the few female voices to chime into this discussion, 
I would *personally* prefer to be elected to such a position on merit 
rather than because a seat had to be reserved for someone who identified 
as female - but that does not mean I don't support such a seat being 
designated.

For the Board to become more diverse, the community needs to become more 
diverse so that the NomCom can choose from a wider pool of qualified 
people who can be presented as candidates for open Board seats.

Hopefully, the expanded Fellowship Program and the Women's Lunches will 
help increase the participation and visibility of a more diverse set of 
people (in terms of gender and regional representation) over the next 
few meetings.

Finally, over in the RIPE region, the community has recently formed a 
RIPE Diversity Task Force to address the gender issue in the community. 
You can read about it here:
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/agowland/diversity-discussions-at-ripe-74

Cheers,

Susannah


> I had not considered the importance of encouraging greater diversity 
> in general participation,
> but now see it is at least as important for sake of diversity of 
> participation, and probably
> even more important as Bill points out.  (Also of note, it would 
> likely also support greater
> diversity of qualified board candidates).
>
> I strongly support efforts to increase diversity of participation.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 6:54 PM, Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net 
> <mailto:woody at pch.net>> wrote:
>
>
>     > On Jun 2, 2017, at 1:49 AM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com
>     <mailto:rs at seastrom.com>> wrote:
>
>     > I am neither in favor of nor opposed to the
>     restrictions/carve-outs that Jason suggests, but will observe that
>     they may be one effective tool among many that the Board or NomCom
>     may bring to bear.
>
>     Yes.  But as I?ve explained before, regional representation is
>     done by categorizing _voters_, not _candidates_.
>
> One way to achieve regional representation by categorizing _voters_ is 
> to limit the voting
> for a particular seat to a geographical segment of the membership.
>
> Another way to achieve regional representation by categorizing 
> _voters_ is to limit the
> selection of the candidate slate for a particular seat to 
> a geographical segment of the
> community, and have the entire membership vote.
>
> You can of course also categorize the candidates and only permit a 
> certain type of
> candidate for a particular seat.
>
> I do not have strong preference for one approach over another, and 
> would prefer
> whichever approach provides the best mix of diversity and qualified Board
> members.
>
> As Bill points out categorizing _candidates_ may make sense in some cases
> such as gender diversity.
>
> __Jason
>
> -- 
> _______________________________________________________
> Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com 
> <mailto:jschiller at google.com>|571-266-0006
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.

-- 
Susannah Gray
Communications Consultant | Writer | Editor
www.susegray.com
-
President & Chair
San Francisco-Bay Area Internet Society Chapter
www.sfbayisoc.org

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From john at comfortconsulting.com  Mon Jun 12 22:55:57 2017
From: john at comfortconsulting.com (John Comfort)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 19:55:57 -0700
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Reminder: Consultation on Increasing the size of
 the ARIN Board of Trustees
In-Reply-To: <5bff5549-1a93-7837-ad01-d08d41801010@gmail.com>
References: <36995fe9-4dc4-6bc8-22c8-511d31ba6ce5@arin.net>
 <CAC4yj2VsggxnTFrViFEaK8kLRWDqwoobWxQm5rvasAiRg76Z+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <43684157-E6B2-4937-90F5-71AB973941B4@seastrom.com>
 <67B09530-D59D-4BD0-B89F-FACDDDB5F235@pch.net>
 <CAC4yj2XMg3wHNHs1Y2k9R_934mfBHW1tdLdRVuN8mG2sZ420aw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5bff5549-1a93-7837-ad01-d08d41801010@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALFvOQMB+H+e3vgnKP3Z7fH8FjX6xNXULs231vB2x+R2Wfw3+w@mail.gmail.com>

Susannah, I appreciate your input, however you also have missed the point
being made.  "Diversity" to which you speak of is not inclusive, it is
exclusive.  Your use of the word Diversity is "status quo" + women,
implying that the "status quo" is a male exclusive club (Caribbean Regional
is a red-herring in my opinion).  How can diversity be guaranteed under
this flavor of Diversity?  Please read Mike's responses that includes a
more detailed analysis of the myriad people groups who will still be
"underrepresented".

If a knitting or quilting club contains all women, does that mean men are
underrepresented?  NO!  It is more likely that men don't have an interest
in these hobbies/professions.  Men are quite capable and allowed to pursue
these even without a representative seat "officially" prescribed.

A more reasonable solution to the alleged ARIN problem that does not
involve acquiescing to the jesuit-communist Diversity plank, is for women
to start clubs, classes or blogs such as the Women's Lunches you stated
above.  How many women have applied to the board and have been rejected?
Maybe a study should be done FIRST to determine if the "problem" exists.

The important question is whether there is any prejudicial treatment
against any group or person.  Your statement that you would like to be
accepted by merit is contradicted by the following statement made that you
still support a prejudicial seat with a group label.





On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 7:21 PM, Susannah Gray <susannah.gray at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> On 02/06/2017 07:39, Jason Schiller wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am neither in favor of nor opposed to the restrictions/carve-outs that
> Jason suggests,
> > but will observe that they may be one effective tool among many that the
> Board or NomCom
> > may bring to bear.
>
> For the record,I am neither in favor nor opposed to the specific
> restrictions/carve-outs that
> I suggested.  I am strongly in favor of adding new Board seats if they
> have some sort of
> restrictions/carve-outs.  I gave some examples that came to mind to spur
> discussion about
> the general need for some specific restrictions/carve-outs and hope the
> discussion will shift
> to what restrictions would be desired prior to deciding to enlarge the
> board.
>
> I thank RS for pointing out that there are other ways to address diversity
> such as the fellowship.
>
>
> As I understand it, the domicile restrictions for the Fellowship Program
> have been removed and the number of available places on the program have
> been increased in order to encourage more participation from typically
> under-represented regions.
>
> Similarly, the Women's Lunches that now take place during the ARIN
> Meetings help female attendees learn more about the other women in the
> community as well as how to participate in ARIN in an informal environment.
>
> Regarding the idea to increase the number of seats on the Board, I agree
> that we should strive for more diversity on the Board. I also agree,
> however, with several of the other responses that unless seats are
> specifically designated as a 'Caribbean Regional Seat' or 'Female
> Representative Seat', diversity cannot be guaranteed and most likely the
> status quo will prevail.
>
> Further, as one of the few female voices to chime into this discussion, I
> would *personally* prefer to be elected to such a position on merit rather
> than because a seat had to be reserved for someone who identified as female
> - but that does not mean I don't support such a seat being designated.
>
> For the Board to become more diverse, the community needs to become more
> diverse so that the NomCom can choose from a wider pool of qualified people
> who can be presented as candidates for open Board seats.
>
> Hopefully, the expanded Fellowship Program and the Women's Lunches will
> help increase the participation and visibility of a more diverse set of
> people (in terms of gender and regional representation) over the next few
> meetings.
>
> Finally, over in the RIPE region, the community has recently formed a RIPE
> Diversity Task Force to address the gender issue in the community. You can
> read about it here:
> https://labs.ripe.net/Members/agowland/diversity-discussions-at-ripe-74
>
> Cheers,
>
> Susannah
>
>
> I had not considered the importance of encouraging greater diversity in
> general participation,
> but now see it is at least as important for sake of diversity of
> participation, and probably
> even more important as Bill points out.  (Also of note, it would likely
> also support greater
> diversity of qualified board candidates).
>
> I strongly support efforts to increase diversity of participation.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 6:54 PM, Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> > On Jun 2, 2017, at 1:49 AM, Rob Seastrom <rs at seastrom.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I am neither in favor of nor opposed to the restrictions/carve-outs
>> that Jason suggests, but will observe that they may be one effective tool
>> among many that the Board or NomCom may bring to bear.
>>
>> Yes.  But as I?ve explained before, regional representation is done by
>> categorizing _voters_, not _candidates_.
>>
>> One way to achieve regional representation by categorizing _voters_ is to
> limit the voting
> for a particular seat to a geographical segment of the membership.
>
> Another way to achieve regional representation by categorizing _voters_ is
> to limit the
> selection of the candidate slate for a particular seat to a geographical
> segment of the
> community, and have the entire membership vote.
>
> You can of course also categorize the candidates and only permit a certain
> type of
> candidate for a particular seat.
>
> I do not have strong preference for one approach over another, and would
> prefer
> whichever approach provides the best mix of diversity and qualified Board
> members.
>
> As Bill points out categorizing _candidates_ may make sense in some cases
> such as gender diversity.
>
>
> __Jason
>
> --
> _______________________________________________________
> Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com|571-266-0006 <(571)%20266-0006>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
>
> --
> Susannah Gray
> Communications Consultant | Writer | Editor www.susegray.com
> -
> President & Chair
> San Francisco-Bay Area Internet Society Chapterwww.sfbayisoc.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-Consult
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Consult Mailing
> List (ARIN-consult at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-consult Please contact the
> ARIN Member Services
> Help Desk at info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
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From info at arin.net  Tue Jun 13 12:46:56 2017
From: info at arin.net (ARIN)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:46:56 -0400
Subject: [ARIN-consult] Community Consultation on Increasing the size of the
 ARIN Board of Trustees is now Closed
Message-ID: <1ca6d023-b45d-8645-5bdc-20c186fb7bf4@arin.net>

ARIN thanks those who provided valuable feedback during this
consultation on expanding the size of the Board. This feedback will be
provided to the ARIN Board for their deliberations and determination of
appropriate next steps.

For more information, please see:
https://arin.net/participate/acsp/community_consult/05-11-2017_boardsize.html

Regards,

John Curran
President and CEO
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)